Laughable ‘For Sale’ threads recently

Mouse_at_Large · Oct 13, 2020

I'm very much an outsider in this as I've only bought a couple of watches here and sold one. However, I can make a distinction between misrepresentation or being economical with the truth (whether intentionally or innocently) and the price asked for.

If the description is patently wrong or misleading, then that should be pointed out in a calm (and hopefully constructive) manner that will encourage the seller to adjust the description to more closely match the actual item being sold.

When it comes to the price being asked for, that's (in my opinion) a matter entirely between the seller and prospective purchasers to negotiate. If someone tries to set a price that no prospective seller is willing to pay then the item will remain unsold. I really don't see how (or why) there should be any call to intervene or make disparaging comment on an asking price. Someone may have an opinion on what the market value is for a particular watch in a particular condition, but that's no reason to say that it might not sell for more (or less).

Let the unrealistic optimists have their dreams.

padders · Oct 13, 2020

I think William's system works pretty well. I have seen people riling against it before, hell even I used to think 'damn his arrogance' ie how dare you tell me what to charge for my priceless valuable Speedmaster (when selling) or piss off that is worth half that (when buying) but the reality is it reflects real sales. Yes the quality rating are subjective.

We had a Noob just this week thinking his 145.012-67 was Exc and therefore $18,000 but hadn't realised that a washed dial means it is priced at a rather more prosaic level, like $6-8K. As William is keen to point out, you don't like it, come up with your own. Sitting on the side and sniping is both cowardly and counter productive. That isn't a pop at you personally, I just pointing out that it is easy to pull down what is there but the clever thing is to provide the alternative.

Marsimaxam
🍿What an enjoyable thread to read this morning.

I too have noticed some watches for sale that I thought the prices were too high, but, no one is forcing me to wire my money to the seller.
Yes, I'd like to think that there are ALWAYS better deals to be found among the friendly confines of the Omega Forum, but that is not realistic.
I believe that a truly serious seller will offer the watch at a price that it will sell quickly.

Also, on another note... why do sellers quote the prices for vintage Speedmasters from Speedmaster 101... is that THE price guide? The prices seem a little steep in my opinion, but, then again...

Larry S · Oct 13, 2020

slwoodster
Well... gone are the days when the forums are giving each other wholesale pricing. Everyone wants to make an extra buck. Hulks are trading at grey dealers $15k(used)-18k(brand new). People want $24k for them bc they see it on chrono24.

I suspect some folks expect wholesale pricing still.

janice&fred · Oct 13, 2020

slwoodster
Hulks are trading at grey dealers $15k(used)-18k(brand new). People want $24k for them bc they see it on chrono24.

You lost me at "hulks" since I refuse to acknowledge any retarded rolex nicknames. 😁

airansun · Oct 13, 2020

Dan S
My understanding is that the price guide is based on actual data, but my interpretation is that William (@Spacefruit) has higher standards for condition than most sellers. So a seller may be asking a price based on a belief that their watch is in Very Good condition, whereas William would probably classify it as Good or Fair.

Exactly. (I find myself agreeing with @Dan S alot. 👍).

And, I think a lot of people overrate their own watches. If you actually read Very Good, it’s a very high standard, higher than the vast majority of Speedmasters for sale here or anywhere else.

The chart is a tool, not a store’s price list. With my more limited knowledge, I don’t always agree with the chart, but it is a valuable resource, to me anyway.

By the same token, I appreciate @JwRosenthal ’s diver watch analysis. I think his tiers are a useful tool to provoke one’s own thought process, even though it’s an artificial construct. (Thank you for taking the time to put together that post! 👍)

I also agree that posting on OF should implicitly authorize an OF discussion about the merits of the piece. I know that when I get ready to sell my first watch here, I want knowledgeable people to point out where I’ve made a mistake or missed something in my ad. I learn from reading the ads and learn even more from threads like this. 😉

I don’t think pricing discussions should be verboten, but I can definitely see more problems arising from pricing discussions than condition debates. And, while pricing commodity watches, like vintage Speedmasters, is somewhat straightforward, pricing rare or unique pieces is much more challenging. And much more subject to disagreement.

Like @Faz , I get tired of seeing the same watches bumped over and over again. It would be nice if there were an additional mechanism (beyond the watch not selling for weeks or months) to alert those sellers that their pricing is too high.

Of course, a watch that doesn’t sell right away may have other causes. There are some pieces for which the market is very small. Maybe a buyer only comes along rarely for that reference. Or maybe it’s so valuable that that market is just slower than others.

I think the discussion is worth having and, I suspect, sellers who really want to sell would be interested in the assistance.

sdre · Oct 13, 2020

I, too, feel that some posting from 2019 getting bumped up... Might just get tiresome to scan through, so what I do is I actually look at the number of posts instead.

If I see 0-1 posts, it would mean a recent posting and after which I would look at the title / brands / models etc.

Its a quicker, more efficient way to sort through the whole clog of sales items.

Also, I think if you are looking for a particular watch model / brand for a good/fair price, reckon it might take some work to hunt for it. Isn't that what we do all the time that makes it so rewarding?

The hunt.

Dan S · Oct 13, 2020

airansun
Like @Faz , I get tired of seeing the same watches bumped over and over again. It would be nice if there were an additional mechanism (beyond the watch not selling for weeks or months) to alert those sellers that their pricing is too high.

I have seen other venues where bumping is only allowed if it is accompanied by a price reduction of a certain percentage. I think it could work reasonably well, but would be extremely onerous for the mods to enforce.

Syrte · Oct 13, 2020

I too have had the itch to comment on ludicrous prices on the private sales forum. Seems to me some of the sellers listing them are people who have joined the fray a couple years ago when prices were overheated and only seemed bound to increase, and were buying at the heightened prices of dealers, Instagram and Hodinkee. And so they never had an opportunity to distinguish the overinflated toys from the genuinely high quality items, or realized they were overpaying. And then they try to pass on their watches following the same curve, without realizing the market has evolved and other people have different standards.

janice&fred · Oct 13, 2020

Syrte
And then they try to pass on their watches following the same curve, without realizing the market has evolved and other people have different standards.

Well not everything holds it's value as well as those hodinkee travel clocks 😁

Dan S · Oct 13, 2020

Syrte
I too have had the itch to comment on ludicrous prices on the private sales forum. Seems to me some of the sellers listing them are people who have joined the fray a couple years ago when prices were overheated and only seemed bound to increase, and were buying at the heightened prices of dealers, Instagram and Hodinkee. And so they never had an opportunity to distinguish the overinflated toys from the genuinely high quality items, or realized they were overpaying. And then they try to pass on their watches following the same curve, without realizing the market has evolved and other people have different standards.

Sometimes you will even see sellers mention that they are selling it for the same amount they paid to a famous dealer, or are selling it for the same amount they have into it, neither of which are relevant to me as a potential buyer.

wsfarrell · Oct 13, 2020

Dan S
are selling it for the same amount they have into it

I see this all the time in the Japanese kitchen knives I collect, and it drives me up a tree. It doesn't matter to me if the seller only cut 2 carrots with the knife: it's more "used" now than it was before before he owned it. Why should he get back the same as he paid?
Unnecessary but illustrative glamor shot:

shishy · Oct 13, 2020

Dan S
...or are selling it for the same amount they have into it...

That's usually to buffer against people calling them a dirty flipper trying to make a quick buck (which has happened here somewhat often in the past few months, though those discussions seem to have been deleted)

JwRosenthal · Oct 13, 2020

I have no problem with buy low sell high- it's the nature of the hobby if we can. You get a steal for $150 on a watch that normally trades for $500- you are elated. You wear it once and realize it's too small, too big, to bling, too boring- whatever. I think anyone who called you a flipper for selling for $500 a week later is just calling sour grapes. Now if you list it for $1k, then you are just being rediculous.

Dan S · Oct 13, 2020

shishy
That's usually to buffer against people calling them a dirty flipper trying to make a quick buck (which has happened here somewhat often in the past few months, though those discussions seem to have been deleted)

Yeah, I've seen that too. But I'm thinking of the situation where the listing starts out being insanely overpriced, and then week after week the price drops, until it's only greatly overpriced, and the seller says he can't reduce the price anymore because the asking price is now equal to what he has into it. Which just means he overpaid, or paid for a service, or whatever. Who cares, right. It's worth what it's worth. What the seller paid for it doesn't matter.

JwRosenthal · Oct 13, 2020

Dan S
Yeah, I've seen that too. But I'm thinking of the situation where the listing starts out being insanely overpriced, and then week after week the price drops, until it's only greatly overpriced, and the seller says he can't reduce the price anymore because the asking price is now equal to what he has into it. Which just means he overpaid, or paid for a service, or whatever. Who cares, right. It's worth what it's worth. What the seller paid for it doesn't matter.

Yup- don't expect others to pay for your mistakes.
I traded a watch to a member here which I paid about $450 for, I had it serviced for about $200 (which was a steal to service that watch), and when we traded, I valued it at $450- not becuase I was feeling magnanimous, but becuase that's what they are worth. I hadn't planned on ever selling it, I chose to invest more than the watch was worth- why should he have to pay for that. The other member tried to tell me I should value it higher, but I couldn't- $450 is what I saw them trading for by doing market research.
When I got the watches we had exchanged, he had slipped an extra $100 bill in with the watches- he didn't have to do that, but I appreciate him feeling that he got a good value for his trade. We both walk away happy- the way it should be.

Walrus · Oct 13, 2020

vintage hab
I’m pretty new to the forum and watches. I’ve learned a ton here and generally appreciate the tone. You often read about “keeping a watch in the OF family” and such. And I know that many members have become good friends over the years.
Then sometimes I’ll see a FS posting, and it’s hard for me to understand the value & condition without research, but other members seem to pump with “beautiful example” or “won’t last long”. It makes me wonder if the comments are always genuine.

Well not like I’m an old timer do that but I do sometimes compliment how nice a watch is with no other motive than to compliment the watch. If it’s a seller I dealt with I may say “good guy to do business with”. I can’t speak for all those comments of course but in many cases it’s just as I said.

pw92676 · Oct 13, 2020

I did a quick look through and couldn’t identify exactly which few items raised some eyebrows. TBH I thought everything was priced far from what I would expect. Not my cups of tea but I readily admit I also have lots to learn about this sector of the market. Good feedback in this thread for newbies to learn from.

BlackTalon · Oct 13, 2020

wsfarrell
I see this all the time in the Japanese kitchen knives I collect, and it drives me up a tree. It doesn't matter to me if the seller only cut 2 carrots with the knife: it's more "used" now than it was before before he owned it. Why should he get back the same as he paid?
Unnecessary but illustrative glamor shot:

Definitely a lot of price appreciation at the higher end of j-knives these days. Part of it is some of the makers being at the end of their careers, part of it is the weaker dollar-to-yen (probably Australian and Canadian dollars have also weakened against the yen), and part of it is an influx of newcomers with deepish pockets who start buying the top makers and reducing the supply. I don't have any fancy j-knives, but I have a handful or two from custom makers; some of them have much higher knife prices now, which makes their older ones worth more as well.

airansun · Oct 13, 2020

Noobies have more to learn than just watch facts. If you wanna be a watch collector, you’re also gonna have to learn how to buy and, more importantly, how to sell.

Not easy lessons, as we all know firsthand.

I have a lot of respect for the members here who know how to sell. (And, we all know the group I’m talking about.) You guys are great but you always make me regret I don’t watch the ads more closely.

fibonacci · Oct 14, 2020

Dan S
Which just means he overpaid, or paid for a service, or whatever. Who cares, right. It's worth what it's worth. What the seller paid for it doesn't matter.

JwRosenthal
I traded a watch to a member here which I paid about $450 for, I had it serviced for about $200 (which was a steal to service that watch), and when we traded, I valued it at $450- not becuase I was feeling magnanimous, but becuase that's what they are worth.

It seems to me that a watch recently, provably, and professionally serviced is worth some premium over the same watch with an unknown service history. A higher end vintage chronograph, for example, that has gone too long without maintenance could easily result in a four digit bill when you take it in, or stop working properly if you neglect to do so. It’s simple economic rationality to be willing to pay more for one with less likelihood of that happening.

Laughable ‘For Sale’ threads recently

Mouse_at_Large

padders

Larry S

janice&fred

airansun

sdre

Dan S

Syrte

janice&fred

Dan S

wsfarrell

shishy

JwRosenthal

Dan S

JwRosenthal

Walrus

pw92676

BlackTalon

airansun

fibonacci

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