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Landed a (special) Vintage Seamaster Chronograph

  1. bubu16 Dec 17, 2019

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    My response above was for Gator
     
  2. kov Trüffelschwein. Dec 17, 2019

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    The hands are identical to the 145.016 White soccer time dial ;)
     
  3. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Dec 17, 2019

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    Yes.
    Not on a dial like that. However, a good redial company might have several dies that can recreate a similar look, but they may never have been used together. A quick (but not definitive) look at other Omega cal. 861 chronographs show that the Omega versions tend to have only one specialty register outside of the hour markers. Either Tachymetre, Pulsations or numbered seconds, but not a combination. Please see your research thread: https://omegaforums.net/threads/145-006-145-016-seamaster-chronograph-research-thread.77145/.

    It is possible that a die for the multiple outside registers was used by a related brand, but I haven't seen an Omega that uses such a combination. Plenty more to look at here: https://www.google.com/search?q=Omega 861 chronograph 145.016&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj0l-GfuL3mAhWyV98KHTmqBqkQ_AUoAnoECAsQBA&biw=1920&bih=937
    gatorcpa
     
    ErichPryde likes this.
  4. kov Trüffelschwein. Dec 17, 2019

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    Interesting.

    A quick look will only allow to compare with models that made it into production. No surprise if nothing comparable shows up, the outcome is in line with my sample theory so far.

    My next step will be to bring it to Omega and see what they think :) Will for sure share the news, whatever they are ;)
     
  5. Walrus Dec 17, 2019

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    I like putting something up and getting these guys to analyze any faults. I’ve done it once or twice. Either way imo that is an excellent looking watch that is a great addition to the box.
     
    janice&fred, igloe and kov like this.
  6. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Dec 17, 2019

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    IMO, that is not a "prototype". But that is just my opinion.

    I've not seen a single example of this reference without raised hour markers of some kind.
    gatorcpa
     
  7. airansun In the shuffling madness Dec 17, 2019

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    Hmm...

    AF1A8D5E-0FCD-4828-B4DF-BE23BE9AAFB1.jpeg FB9A753B-7F07-4CFF-97D4-957B506E3BF9.jpeg

    I want to be okay with it

    but I can’t. I don’t think that’s factory.

    Just my, not in-hand, opinion. I’m less knowledgeable than many who have already weighed in and I usually place complete reliance on @kov ’s research.

    But, that’s what my eyes see...

    I look forward to hearing what Bienne says.

    ::popcorn::

    Btw, it is beautiful!
     
    JimJupiter, sdre, Syrte and 8 others like this.
  8. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Dec 17, 2019

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    Blow-up of a blow-up.

    6E8BEBA7-BB87-4C79-8869-AE88F97106A2.jpeg

    You can see the remnants of the original guilloche inside the sub-dial.

    Compare with this original dial:

    5F8EFD60-7700-4481-8490-AFD277017064.jpeg

    No way the OP’s dial is original, “prototype”, or another brand’s dial.

    It is a redial.
    gatorcpa
     
    JimJupiter, Dan S, sdre and 14 others like this.
  9. Rman Dec 17, 2019

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    Why not another brand’s dial redialed?

    The subdials tell that story.
     
  10. STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Dec 17, 2019

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    Have you had the back off. Is there dial feet.?
     
  11. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Dec 17, 2019

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    That could very well be true.

    However, my point was that it is not any brand's original dial.
    gatorcpa
     
    Northernman likes this.
  12. Buck2466 Dec 17, 2019

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    Also, the Mark's at 5 and 15 on the minutes subdial bleed into the sundial quite a bit.
     
  13. whyboddau Dec 17, 2019

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    Could it be a soccer time dial redial? In my eyes, the soccer time dial has the big eye 3 and 9 with a smaller 6. :thumbsdown:
     
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  14. BenBagbag Dec 17, 2019

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    I think the concentric circles being filled in somewhat is a good giveaway that this dial was tampered with. The marks on subdials also seem uneven, as others have said.
     
    sdre likes this.
  15. Theluglife Dec 17, 2019

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    can you open the caseback and check the reference?
     
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  16. STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Dec 17, 2019

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    Bingo.....
     
    kov likes this.
  17. kov Trüffelschwein. Dec 18, 2019

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    Interesting path. But the soccer time dial has no concentric circles :) why the remnants as @gatorcpa suggested above?

    This is an original Omega Seamaster dial yes, but this is not the dial that could have served as a base for an eventual redial. The subdial you showed is much smaller, not a big eye ;)

    Very interesting to get (totally) different opinions from different people and places. Keep them coming. Looking fwd to get some time to talk to the Heritage Team.
     
    igloe likes this.
  18. STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Dec 18, 2019

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    Syrte and kov like this.
  19. kov Trüffelschwein. Dec 18, 2019

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    And again we learn something new :thumbsup: I have never noticed concentric circles on some Soccer Time dials, yet. Great !

    Note that I saw somewhere a dial comparison between the SoccerTime 145.016 and the 145.019 and it looked like the dials are different. (If I remember well, the minute track is slightly different) Maybe the 019 had the circles, which would be in line with your example.

    upload_2019-12-18_10-28-42.png

    @gatorcpa these concentric circles don't look very sharp as well, your comments on that? :)
     
  20. kov Trüffelschwein. Dec 18, 2019

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    Just a quick comparison :

    upload_2019-12-18_10-39-32.png
    ( http://www.luxuwrist.com/uploads/2/7/7/6/27766927/s490097580971589483_p263_i33_w2560.jpeg )

    No concentric circles here.

    imgrc0074961677.jpg
    ( https://shop.r10s.jp/auc-kyotoya-shop/cabinet/tokei/01623868/06262056/imgrc0074961677.jpg )

    Concentric (uneven) circles are present.

    Definitely a different dial. The minute track is much closer to the subdials on the 019 to allow space for inner bezel. Indeed it even overrides the subdial at 9.

    Both watches have the same calibre (861).

    --> so I believe we can exclude the Soccer Time 145.016 from the possible base for redial.
     
    Edited Dec 18, 2019
    igloe likes this.