Is this Transitional worth €12,000?

Larry S · Sep 9, 2016

As to why other brands are no dissected, this is an omega forum! (Couldn't resist that one).[/QUOTE]

Dissection is constant direct and robust on UG and Longines Forums. This happens on the forum and on PM. I don't doubt that very direct feedback would be given any 200+ poster who posted a questionable watch for sale. So I still celebrate the vigilance of the experts on all the OF forums. When the time comes for me to part with any of my watches I will make sure my homework is done.

Kwijibo · Sep 9, 2016

Hello

I totally agree to that. I think I answer question as best as I possibly can. I'm a regular member of this forum. What else can I say. I offered some people to come an see it. I know we are on a US based forum and that I'm in France so it's not taht easy. Certainly easier from London, Brussels or Amsterdam.
I think the right price will be defined naturally. If the price too high, my friend will have to think of another one.
I remeber a few years ago people screaming at 3000 euros speedies. I don't know if the rocketting of prices have any sens or not. I don't decide them. Watches is a peculiar field.

Archer · Sep 9, 2016

Kwijibo
I know we are on a US based forum and that I'm in France so it's not taht easy. Certainly easier from London, Brussels or Amsterdam.

Just as a point of clarification, the forum is based in Australia I believe...but it is international in scope certainly...

Kwijibo · Sep 9, 2016

😲 ok, I didn't know. Anyway the main language is english and probably most of the buyers are american.

Larry S · Sep 9, 2016

Kwijibo
😲 ok, I didn't know. Anyway the main language is english and probably most of the buyers are american.

Not certain that is true either.

ioaniro · Sep 9, 2016

Since the title of the thread is a question I'll try to answer the question from a noob perspective. The watch is worth whatever the seller and prospective buyer think it's worth. So yes if the friend of the seller decided this watch is worth 12k it is. He might not find a buyer of like mind but that's not the point is it? I'd only see the point of this thread if there's something wrong with the watch (so others like me can learn) which from what I understand so far is not the case.

Longbow · Sep 9, 2016

Kwijibo
😲 ok, I didn't know. Anyway the main language is english and probably most of the buyers are american.

Not all American, I'm English, living in Germany and have posted/purchased here.

Despite my post-count I'm still a Noob so I found the technical comments and market valuation comments very helpful. In an odd way it has been beneficial that someone has posted a FS at a high price and less than perfection. The addition of such comments by other knowledgable members on a FS post may be a contravention on Forum etiquette, but for me at least it has enhanced my level of trust concerning purchasing here.

Davidt · Sep 9, 2016

I've followed this thread with interest, so it's only right that I contribute.

In answer to the original question, I don't think the watch is worth €12k. It's a nice example with good and bad points, but i'd need to see a genuine NOS example of this reference to get anywhere near 12k.

Good
Full set with matching papers.
Strong case
DoN bezel in above average condition
Lume shot after being exposed to light source suggests to me the dial lume is original.
Very nice dial (not perfect).
Original bracelet.

Not so good
Lume shot suggests hour/minute hands have non original lume.
Dial has some marks, possibly from moisture.
Pictures possibly don't present the warch as well as they could.

Now I do think this is a very nice watch, that could sell strongly. However, as many others have pointed out, the price is high. It's a sellers prerogative to ask what they chose for a piece, but as I constantly say, this is a discussion forum, and when we see something unusual or something that pushes boundaries, such as a low/high price, unusual reference, poor/excellent condition etc, it's our prerogative on this forum to discuss it. Obviously this should be done politely and in good taste.

I think what hasn't helped here (and I direct this towards the owner, not @Kwijibo), is that the ad looks slightly lazy. The pictures aren't great, there are no good ones of the papers and the correct bezel wasn't included at first. It almost seems cheeky to me to ask such a high price, yet offer little info in return.

I also think it's worth noting that @Kwijibo has taken everything on the chin and that should be noted.

dsio · Sep 9, 2016

Larry S
Not certain that is true either.

USA accounts for 36.22% of our traffic, followed by 12.86% for the UK, 4.34% for Canada, 3.99% for Australia and 3.90% for Germany

By city London is largest at 3.81% followed by 2.56% Singapore and 1.73% Hong Kong

watchknut · Sep 9, 2016

dsio
USA accounts for 36.22% of our traffic, followed by 12.86% for the UK, 4.34% for Canada, 3.99% for Australia and 3.90% for Germany

By city London is largest at 3.81% followed by 2.56% Singapore and 1.73% Hong Kong

Well damn...that is some fascinating stuff!

ewand · Sep 9, 2016

watchknut
Well damn...that is some fascinating stuff!

See? London: centre of the world as far as time is concerned...

dsio · Sep 9, 2016

Also further evidence that watches are the official religion of Singapore and Hong Kong, people joke about being able to see 4-5 Starbucks from one place in the USA, in Orchard Rd you can see 4-5 Rolex ADs from one place, its crazy.

adrienbelanger · Sep 9, 2016

I think the comments on language are way out of line -- I would like to commend members whose first language isn't English on the quality of their communications on this forum in English. I think it's very difficult for native English speakers to comprehend the efforts most non-native English speakers make to participate here (and often on very technical points where vocabulary matters) and they should be encouraged, not admonished...our forum benefits tremendously from having a vigorous community of members from all over the world who are willing to contribute their opinions, expertise and of course their watches.

Syrte · Sep 9, 2016

U ulackfocus
You are, of course, correct about being disrespectful - except I think the "bullying and extortion" is a little more extreme description than what was happening.

However, there is a certain amount of brutal honesty permitted, and actually encouraged, here when it comes to watches offered - whether it's about originality or price. It just should not happen in the seller's For Sale listing.

I'm still confused in this thread as to whether it means we're allowed to pinpoint what we think is ridiculous pricing on a correct watch in the private sales forum.

Thankfully many fellow forum members are totally sensible in selling their watches, but I often find the spirit of greed is seeping in here too, and I often find myself wondering when I see certain offers here whether people think I'm an idiot. Yet no one ever calls anyone on pricing, out of what I would think is a reasonable and commendable sense of courtesy.

So it seems to me the only reason this conversation is taking place is that the seller is not a member and not a party to the conversation.
And the poor @Kwijibo who just wanted to help is now on the receiving end of this deluge of comments. I'm not sure it's fair for him to serve as an outlet for all of the frustration everyone has over inflated prices.

Kwijibo · Sep 9, 2016

Davidt3449
I've followed this thread with interest, so it's only right that I contribute.

In answer to the original question, I don't think the watch is worth €12k. It's a nice example with good and bad points, but i'd need to see a genuine NOS example of this reference to get anywhere near 12k.

Good
Full set with matching papers.
Strong case
DoN bezel in above average condition
Lume shot after being exposed to light source suggests to me the dial lume is original.
Very nice dial (not perfect).
Original bracelet.

Not so good
Lume shot suggests hour/minute hands have non original lume.
Dial has some marks, possibly from moisture.
Pictures possibly don't present the warch as well as they could.

Now I do think this is a very nice watch, that could sell strongly. However, as many others have pointed out, the price is high. It's a sellers prerogative to ask what they chose for a piece, but as I constantly say, this is a discussion forum, and when we see something unusual or something that pushes boundaries, such as a low/high price, unusual reference, poor/excellent condition etc, it's our prerogative on this forum to discuss it. Obviously this should be done politely and in good taste.

I think what hasn't helped here (and I direct this towards the owner, not @Kwijibo), is that the ad looks slightly lazy. The pictures aren't great, there are no good ones of the papers and the correct bezel wasn't included at first. It almost seems cheeky to me to ask such a high price, yet offer little info in return.

I also think it's worth noting that @Kwijibo has taken everything on the chin and that should be noted.

David thanks for your comment.
Your right on some points, wrong on some others.
The ad could have been more attractive and in fact I will make some new pics with my DSLR. You say yourself you are a noob and no, the dial in not refinished. That is an important point that explains the price. I have another transitional to sell and I won't ask more than 5500 for it.
Saying there is some stains on the dial is simply wrong. The dial is immaculate. I'll take it out of the watch tomorrow.
As for the papers. Most sellers hide the serial number so why should I show them? I'll give them + the papers to a serious potential seller. We must be cautious generally on serial numbers.
Cheers.
have a look at this ad for instance.
http://www.chrono24.com/en/omega/omega-speedmaster-moon-watch-145022-tropical-dial--id4579583.htm
The price is about 9000 euros. the dial is said to be tropical but it's not obvious. the plots are not mint at all actually. The bezel in not DON, the movement as some staines. there are no papers and box. I'm not sure the crystal is origianl. I stop here because I'm beginning to criticize someone else's watch even if it's an Chrono24

Kwijibo · Sep 9, 2016

Syrte
I'm still confused in this thread as to whether it means we're allowed to pinpoint what we think is ridiculous pricing on a correct watch in the private sales forum.

Thankfully many fellow forum members are totally sensible in selling their watches, but I often find the spirit of greed is seeping in here too, and I often find myself wondering when I see certain offers here whether people think I'm an idiot. Yet no one ever calls anyone on pricing, out of what I would think is a reasonable and commendable sense of courtesy.

So it seems to me the only reason this conversation is taking place is that the seller is not a member and not a party to the conversation.
And the poor @Kwijibo who just wanted to help is now on the receiving end of this deluge of comments. I'm not sure it's fair for him to serve as an outlet for all of the frustration everyone has over inflated prices.

Don't worry, I'm still here. I'm used to forums so also used to sarcasm or criticism. As we say in french slang "it hits me one without making move the other" 😁 (is that sarcasm?)

mac_omega · Sep 9, 2016

ewand
See? London: centre of the world as far as time is concerned...

only Big Ben 😜

Kwijibo · Sep 9, 2016

marturx
If I were to pay 13,5k$ for a transitional Speedy, I would expect to be blown away by its appeal its appearance and the face of it. It should be well beyond all questioning in order to command such an hefty premium.

This watch does not do that to me.

Each and everyone to themselves of course, but what would this forum be, if we were not allowed to discuss this, even if it happens to be about a watch that has been offered for sale on this forum? I think it's even more critical that we do that, just because of that, since it's in the best interest to the all of us, that we keep this place as tidy as we can. Remember Eric Wind at Christies recommending this place in the New York times not long ago. What a great recognition!

Here's my transitional -69, which I know for a fact that the face is untouched

I don't like to criticize other's watch, above all when they look really nice. Your plots have some light brown colour (right?). Which means it had been exposed a long time in the sun. Mine not. they are still green. Don't take it as a criticism, just a aesthtetical point of view. What is rare is more expensive.
You know your dial is untouched, I know mine is not. I wouldn't dare saying your has been refinished.

Syrte · Sep 9, 2016

Kwijibo
Don't worry, I'm still here. I'm used to forums so also used to sarcasm or criticism. As we say in french slang "it hits me one without making move the other" 😁 (is that sarcasm?)

I'm not sure the phrase will be Jacques Chirac's most memorable legacy and as a woman I'm missing a few body parts to truly appreciate it, but since it means you're fine, tant mieux.

ulackfocus · Sep 9, 2016

Syrte
I'm still confused in this thread as to whether it means we're allowed to pinpoint what we think is ridiculous pricing on a correct watch in the private sales forum.

We have a no holds barred approach on critiquing any watch. It's just not tactful to do it in the actual sales forum when the only issue is price. If a watch is listed as "all original" in the description and many of us know it's not (redial, replaced crown/hands, etc.) then it's fair game to call out the seller (hopefully not too rudely) in their listing. The seller can either amend the description and note it in the thread, or relist the watch in a new thread with correct information.

Syrte
Thankfully many fellow forum members are totally sensible in selling their watches, but I often find the spirit of greed is seeping in here too, and I often find myself wondering when I see certain offers here whether people think I'm an idiot. Yet no one ever calls anyone on pricing, out of what I would think is a reasonable and commendable sense of courtesy.

I don't think any particular seller believes you personally are an idiot.... they're just hoping for one idiot to pony up the outrageous asking price. 😁 Again, what's a fair price is in the eyes of the seller and buyer so if it's an honest watch we generally don't comment. I can say that I usually don't make any public contribution on price because (a) I sometimes have a 2011 price guide stuck in my head and (b) who knows what somebody is willing to pay. Besides, everything is negotiable. Some sellers might copy & paste their listing from a place that has high fees and will adjust lower to compensate if bought because of the listing here.

Syrte
So it seems to me the only reason this conversation is taking place is that the seller is not a member and not a party to the conversation.
And the poor @Kwijibo who just wanted to help is now on the receiving end of this deluge of comments. I'm not sure it's fair for him to serve as an outlet for all of the frustration everyone has over inflated prices.

Well, if you're the member who posted the listing you are somewhat responsible for the asking price. It might not be frustration either, it might just be calling a spade a spade.

Is this Transitional worth €12,000?

Larry S

Kwijibo

Archer

Kwijibo

Larry S

ioaniro

Longbow

Davidt

dsio

watchknut

ewand

dsio

adrienbelanger

Syrte

Kwijibo

Kwijibo

mac_omega

Kwijibo

Syrte

ulackfocus

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