Inherited omega dynamic... worth the price to repair?

w154 · Jul 20, 2021

^
Okay so when I wrote the first message there was not a clear statement about whether it was currently running, but let’s now ignore the possibility that it doesn’t work.

So one solution was put forward, which was a 970 CAD service and repair to get it back into tip top condition. I’m not sure how long a guarantee would be provided with such a service, but fair to assume 12-24 months. In all likelihood it would run well for much longer, but for the OP the 970 CAD could be completely disproportionate to the amount of use that he gets from it. He’s not talking about it being a daily wearer, rather something for special occasions only, and almost the entire quoted cost is for work “under the hood”. Of course he’ll get his warranty but how useful is that really if he only wears it for a total of say 20-40 days before the warranty expires.

If the OP (or anyone else in a similar situation in the future) ghouls genuinely struggle to fund a 970 CAD repair then who are we to say there are only two options. Either a) get a full fat service , or b) don’t wear it at all. There are other options. If it was me and my budget was seriously constrained I think I’d buy the cheapest clean and running watch with a cal 565 that I could find, and get that installed. I’m guessing the whole thing could fairly easily be done for under half the quoted price. Is it half as good ? No I’d say it’s not, but you have to take what you can get. I did a quick search on here and found a serviced 565 for sale for 200 gbp but that was from around 8 years ago. I’m sure you could get a running 565 for similar on eBay but that’s perhaps hard for a non expert.

And just as an aside, service costs here in mainland Europe (and the UK) are way lower than this when using independents and that somewhat clouds my judgement. For example a local watchmaker did a manual wind Omega of mine for just €90. Without existing relationships and not much shopping around it’d be easy to find someone to do this for under €200. Maybe a non-running 565 could be harvested for spares, and maybe less spares than quoted are absolutely necessary as I guess Archer is replacing all worn parts to let him give a guarantee without expecting returns. I’d guess (?) not all of those parts are necessary to make the watch a runner.

w154 · Jul 20, 2021

Archer
Since the watch is in my shop, I can answer this - the watch was not running when it arrived. Fully wound it and the movement would not tick at all.

In any case, the debate is moot at this point - the service has been approved and the base movement is already serviced and ticking away on my bench...

In that case it is moot for the OP, but I think the discussion is useful as some kind of balanced reference for others. In threads like this everyone jumps in and tells the OP to throw money at the watch to get it tip-top, but they often do so without really understanding the requirements and financial situation of the person asking the question. Just trying to add balance.

Now I’ve been in the same situation with a close relative’s watch and paid an independent to service it (and used a partial movement to donate one part I needed). Total outlay after reselling the partial movement was about £140. Will it run forever.... probably not, would my watchmaker give a long warranty and guarantee water resistance, nope, but is it enough for me to wear it a few times a year, certainly.

Archer · Jul 20, 2021

w154
And just as an aside, service costs here in mainland Europe (and the UK) are way lower than this when using independents and that somewhat clouds my judgement. For example a local watchmaker did a manual wind Omega of mine for just €90. Without existing relationships and not much shopping around it’d be easy to find someone to do this for under €200. Maybe a non-running 565 could be harvested for spares, and maybe less spares than quoted are absolutely necessary as I guess Archer is replacing all worn parts to let him give a guarantee without expecting returns. I’d guess (?) not all of those parts are necessary to make the watch a runner.

I always hesitate to get into these debates, but what you are essentially saying is that it can be done cheaper if the job is not done right, and that's no surprise.

In fully explaining my approach to the OP with regards to replacing parts, this is what I emailed him, so I'll just repeat it here:

"So when I look at a part to determine if I think it needs replacing, I look at it for the long term. I see watches come to me that were only serviced a year or two ago, where the parts inside are clearly worn. So some watchmakers out there are only looking at the part and if it will run okay when they put the movement back together, rather then looking at it as if the part needs to last for 5+ years."

I do take exception to the suggestion that I am replacing parts unnecessarily. That is completely false. If you want to see a sample of what the condition of the parts inside is, I'm happy to provide them below:

As you can see the pivots on all these wheels are severely worn - deep grooves have been formed in them. If they only had some minimal surface roughness, I would get out the Jacot tool and burnish them to make then perfectly smooth again (something you would not get with the sort of prices you are used to seeing), but the with the material loss here, that simply isn't possible.

w154
In that case it is moot for the OP, but I think the discussion is useful as some kind of balanced reference for others. In threads like this everyone jumps in and tells the OP to throw money at the watch to get it tip-top, but they often do so without really understanding the requirements and financial situation of the person asking the question. Just trying to add balance.

You are certainly free to state your own opinions, but what you and no one else but the OP and I know is that I've gone back and forth with him many times answering all questions he has had. I've looked up previous sales for him to help him understand the value of the watch, telling him the details that are important to collectors and how his watch compares to those things. This isn't a decision he's made just with the input in this thread.

I am indifferent if the job goes ahead or not - I have 10 other jobs I could take in it's place, and all he had to do was tell me he didn't want to proceed, and pay me something for the labour so far, and I would be fine with that.

I don't do half assed work. If people are looking for half assed work, then don't bother contacting me. My goal is always to meet or exceed the requirements of the brand, not just "make is it a runner"...

Cheers, Al

w154 · Jul 20, 2021

Archer
I always hesitate to get into these debates, but what you are essentially saying is that it can be done cheaper if the job is not done right, and that's no surprise.

There is no right and wrong. Just perfect, good enough, bad, and everything in between. Anyone seeking the best should go to the best and expect to pay accordingly. Those who would settle for less (or even a minimum) are entitled to, and they can rightly expect to pay less as they’re getting less.

And I’m not saying you’re unnecessarily replacing parts, but there is no hard definition of necessary. Are you saying the hands wouldn’t even turn if some of those were left as-is in the terrible condition ? I assume wear occurred whilst it was running, so presumably there are one or two parts that are stopping it from moving. If anyone in the this situation could live with a 12 hour power reserve, 3 minutes loss a day, and an expected life of a few months then that’s there choice. What would you suggest if the OP had an absolute fixed budget of 500CAD and all they wanted was to be able to wear it occassionally ?

Archer · Jul 20, 2021

Archer
but what you are essentially saying is that it can be done cheaper if the job is not done right, and that's no surprise.

w154
There is no right and wrong.

Let me rephrase my statement then...

"but what you are essentially saying is that it can be done cheaper if the job is substandard, and that's no surprise."

And the standard would be generally accepted standards in the industry, that any brand service center would follow.

If the goal is simply to make the watch run, that takes very little effort for a watchmaker, so I agree completely that you should pay far less for that.

Cheers, Al

Archer · Jul 20, 2021

w154
And I’m not saying you’re unnecessarily replacing parts, but there is no hard definition of necessary.

Omega disagrees with you. Omega publishes something called the Vintage Diagnostic Manual. Inside this document they show photos of various defects, and indicate what is a pass or fail. Those things include the same type of photos I've posted above, and Omega would call all these (and the other worn parts inside this watch) a fail. Of course there is some judgement involved, which is why I fully explained my rationale to the OP, but these parts are not really debatable - they clearly cross the line.

w154
Are you saying the hands wouldn’t even turn if some of those were left as-is in the terrible condition ?

I don't make a habit of putting worn parts back into movements, so any answer I would give you would be just a guess. I'm not a hack, and that's what hacks do.

w154
If anyone in the this situation could live with a 12 hour power reserve, 3 minutes loss a day, and an expected life of a few months then that’s there choice.

Not if they send the watch to me.

w154
What would you suggest if the OP had an absolute fixed budget of 500CAD and all they wanted was to be able to wear it occassionally ?

That they find someone else to work on it. I won't put my reputation on the line for the sake a few hundred dollars.

People can choose to use watchmakers that don't do the job to industry standards if they want. As long as I don't buy a watch from them at some point, it doesn't really matter to me personally. Most people I encounter are looking for the job to be done properly, so this isn't a situation I really find myself in. Once I give people pricing information, it's actually pretty rare that they decide not to proceed.

Cheers, Al

w154 · Jul 20, 2021

Yes but Omega isn’t the customer. The OP is. All I am saying is there are alternatives between the best (using authorised Omega watchmakers) and the worst (doing nothing at and being unable to even use it just once a year). Nobody is criticising the value of your work, I’m only stating that cheaper alternatives exist which may, in some cases, be more appropriate for an owner.

oh... and thanks for not, until now at least, asking what I’ve been smoking 😁

Archer · Jul 20, 2021

w154
Nobody is criticising the value of your work,

Well...

alexei.joukovski
Skip the watchmaker. Yikes - 970CAD.

That's insane

As for this...

w154
oh... and thanks for not, until now at least, asking what I’ve been smoking 😁

Weed is perfectly legal here, so I don't judge. 😀

perks713 · Jul 20, 2021

Archer
I would get out the Jacot tool and burnish them to make then perfectly smooth again (something you would not get with the sort of prices you are used to seeing), but the with the material loss here, that simply isn't possible.

A Chronostop Archer serviced for me had an issue with the Bridge, at the time a $350 part (I only paid $400 for the watch). There are 5 pages in the PDF he sent back showing how he used his jewling tool to ream out a warn hole, find a bushing that would fit, seat it, press it, and ream it out again to make it function properly. As far as I can tell, that was just 'part of the job', the extra time and effort wasn't tacked on to the service cost where as the $350 part (which I imagine would have been far less effort to order and use) would have.

There is certainly a quality of work you're going to get with someone taking the time to do the job properly and someone who is "giving a quick tune up". And to be fair, i dropped a 70's Geneve off to someone to 'give a quick tune up' just a week ago. The Chronostop, wasn't functioning and needed to be properly repaired.

Each watch is different, each customer is different. I still think the OP could turn around and sell this watch fully serviced and get the majority of their money back, so again not the worst investment

Archer · Jul 20, 2021

w154
Yes but Omega isn’t the customer. The OP is.

Just to comment on this after thinking about it. Yes technically it's true that Omega is not my customer. I'm fully independent, so I decide what I do and do not work on (even things that local Omega service centers are not allowed to work on, I do), and what I charge for my work.

However, if I were to start putting out sloppy work, and people complained to Omega that one of their certified watchmakers was doing crap work, it could lead to me losing my parts account with them.

Unlikely I would say, and certainly not something that I have really thought about in this way before, but possible.

SkunkPrince · Jul 20, 2021

My local guy also performs to the standard that Archer does, which is why I pay a similar price, and get back a watch that will perform better than factory spec, usually.

JwRosenthal · Jul 20, 2021

This conversation happens several times a year- and I totally get it- I was once on the other side of it thinking a “good” service could be had for $150 as was my limited experience with local old timer watchmakers….and if it’s just a Jiffy Lube service you are after- then most likely it can.
In order for a watchmaker like Archer to be an authorized independent Omega service provider who maintains a factory account in good standing, he has to meet the requirements of the manufacturer- which includes specialized factory tools (at great expense) and training. These standards also seem to align with his sensibilities about the quality of work needed, so when you go to him- you know what you are getting.

My watchmaker, with whom I have had a relationship for almost 20 years, will do a pull apart, clean and reassemble on a $35 watch I bought at a flea market for the cost of $150 and will only change parts that are grossly out of spec- but he is clear that those watches are getting a bare minimum of service, will not be guaranteed to be within spec nor waterproof. Getting those “running” may be all I need- those aren’t watches I care to sink huge money into- I just want to wear them for fun- there are watchmakers who can offer this level of service- but don’t expect all watchmakers to offer different tiers of work- it’s up to them.
My better watches my watchmaker will do a full inspection under microscope and provide an inventory for all parts required to be replaced to be within spec (if he can’t find them easily - then I hunt for them - his time is more valuable actually working on watches). I trust him implicitly, so the last time I brought my 16750 GMT to him for service, I didn’t flinch at $575US for the service….which was a steal considering the cost of the parts he had to track down.

Before I ever make a statement about what a professional charges, I think about what I think my time and knowledge is worth.

perks713 · Jul 20, 2021

SkunkPrince
My local guy also performs to the standard that Archer does, which is why I pay a similar price, and get back a watch that will perform better than factory spec, usually.

My local guy has a table saw in his shop so I'm not sure what I'm going to get back.

DON · Jul 20, 2021

I checked Al's parts prices when I saw the repair cost and one sites prices in US funds is what Al charged in Canadian (if Canadian), but OP is getting a fair price on the parts.

If I went to my local supplier here in Toronto. Not sure what I would pay. Haven't bought in years.

I think the main discussion was really based on the repair cost. As it's being repaired. That part is now moot

Hopefully the OP will wear the watch and not store it away and forget about it.

DON

Inherited omega dynamic... worth the price to repair?

w154

w154

Archer

w154

Archer

Archer

w154

Archer

perks713

Archer

SkunkPrince

JwRosenthal

perks713

DON

Similar threads

Is this legit and worth the price?

Parts to repair my Grandfather's Seamaster 168.023 (751 cal)

Inherited Omega Seamaster - best place to sell?

Is the boutique experience worth the premium sale price?

Questions about an inherited Omega Watch from 1952

Patina dial is it worth the price?