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how often should i (can i ) wind the moon pro?

MTROIS
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Archer Archer
People have been winding these watches daily for 50+ years without dissecting the wording of the manual, so people have been following their common sense and doing just fine.

This is so true.... and reminds me of that scene in "A few good men" when Lt. Caffy (Tom Cruise) is asking one of the marines who is on the witness stand to show him the page in the manual where the chow hall is.... and the answer:
"Hum, that page does not exist, Sir! I just follow everybody else, Sir!!" Priceless!! 😗

As an aside, although this thread is taking it to an extreme, it is because the population on OF is more skewed to the technical aspect of watch making/collecting vs. the "will this tiny scrape on my PCL/clasp buff out!?!" (As I often see on another popular Swiss brand-dedicated forum), that I spend most of my time around here. And this is in no small amount due to people like Al and many others around here.

Thank you guys!! 👍
 
robinhook
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jsducote jsducote
Unless your post count is in the thousands or tens of thousands. Then you're branded a troll.
Lol, so be it then. I guess that made you the “certified troll labeler” of OF then?😁
 
Foo2rama
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robinhook robinhook
Lol, so be it then. I guess that made you the “certified troll labeler” of OF then?😁
Jobs already taken.
 
Evitzee
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jsducote jsducote
Unless your post count is in the thousands or tens of thousands. Then you're branded a troll.
That's true, it seems new people to any forum are viewed as outsiders and interlopers no matter how expert they may be in the subject matter. If something is criticized they are often branded a troll. "This dude is a noob, only 400 posts, what can he possibly know? Troll."
 
MTROIS
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Evitzee Evitzee
That's true, it seems new people to any forum are viewed as outsiders and interlopers no matter how expert they may be in the subject matter. If something is criticized you are often branded a troll. "This dude is a noob, only 400 posts, what can he possibly know?"
Depends how the "criticism" is performed: constructively... or negatively. 😉

In any case, just like in real life society, it does take a bit of time to establish one's reputation.
And just like in real life, people are too keen on speaking... instead of listening! (Me included so: Mea Culpa!). 🙄
 
Evitzee
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chiswick chiswick
this is a stupid thread, think its a "wind up"
No sir. We haven't totally defined what 'wind up' really means when it comes to a mechanical watch.
 
rudagger
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OK, I'll wade in again and let people mock me. I really don't think it's a stupid question to ask how often a person should / should not wind a watch.

Anyone who wants to call me stupid, feel free to actually answer the following first.

- Has anyone plotted accuracy vs time since full wind?
- Does the graph show much of a difference at 12 hours vs full wind?
- If there is a difference in accuracy, how much more accurate would the watch be with winding twice per day?
- What exactly is the downside implied in the manual by winding it more often?

If someone gave a hypothetical answer to the OP (without my post here), "on my watch, winding twice per day would move the accuracy from gaining 8 seconds per day to 4 seconds per day. However, the lifespan of the spring is greater with less frequent windings, and with more frequent windings, the power reserve will start to decrease. So all in all, for me it's not worth winding twice a day".

I think the above questions are quite logical, and to me, are the type of information that someone would post if they wanted to help rather than mock. And yes I realize that quartz would be more accurate. But if a guy asks the question like the self-proclaimed NOOB OP, why not save the derision and have an intelligent answer?
 
Evitzee
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rudagger rudagger
OK, I'll wade in again and let people mock me. I really don't think it's a stupid question to ask how often a person should / should not wind a watch.

Anyone who wants to call me stupid, feel free to actually answer the following first.

- Has anyone plotted accuracy vs time since full wind?
- Does the graph show much of a difference at 12 hours vs full wind?
- If there is a difference in accuracy, how much more accurate would the watch be with winding twice per day?
- What exactly is the downside implied in the manual by winding it more often?

If someone gave a hypothetical answer to the OP (without my post here), "on my watch, winding twice per day would move the accuracy from gaining 8 seconds per day to 4 seconds per day. However, the lifespan of the spring is greater with less frequent windings, and with more frequent windings, the power reserve will start to decrease. So all in all, for me it's not worth winding twice a day".

I think the above questions are quite logical, and to me, are the type of information that someone would post if they wanted to help rather than mock. And yes I realize that quartz would be more accurate. But if a guy asks the question like the self-proclaimed NOOB OP, why not save the derision and have an intelligent answer?
All of these phenomena have been studied and analyzed for at least the last 250 years.
- Every movement maker knows what the accuracy vs. time is over the course of a mainspring's wind down. That's how they've developed better hairsprings and more accurate balances over the years. Accuracy is now measured in seconds per day.
- Over time the difference in rate over a 6, 12, 18 or 24 hr time frame has been minimized due to improved technology. That's why good watches are adjusted in 'Five positions and isochronism'.
- There is a device known as a 'remontoire' that effectively rewinds the mainspring at a set period of time. FP Journe's Optimum does it every second but is not feasible, nor required, in mass produced watches. The spring remontoire was invented by Harrison in 1739 for his H2 chronometer. But is rarely applied today except in special watches as a selling point.
- There is probably no downside to winding a watch two, three, ten, twenty times a day, but why would a manufacturer build a watch that required intervention many times a day to improve accuracy? The whole concept of portable timekeeping is to minimize the owners involvement in interacting with the watch, one of the main reasons the automatic watch was developed.
- Manufacturers have calculated accuracy on a 24 hour cycle and have got it down to a standard of -4/+6 to be called a chronometer, and usually far better than that. There is no need to fiddle with a manual wind watch except once a day. Do it in the morning, at noon, at bedtime.....just do it every 24 hours, and so you won't forget it's better to do it at the same time of day. It really isn't any more complicated than that. The industry has covered all of these questions in minute detail over the decades, you aren't going to come up with a scenario that they haven't already thought of and engineered into the movement. .
Edited:
 
Evitzee
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
@rudagger

Just buy a Spring Drive or GPS watch.
My Seiko Spring Drive GMT watch runs at a consistent +0.2 sec/day with no batteries. If you want supreme accuracy in an autonomous watch that is the way to go. Otherwise, just enjoy your mechanical watches and don't obsess over the accuracy.
 
Nobel Prize
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It’s not that the questions are stupid, not to me anyway; it’s that they are not relevant.

If you’re a mechanical engineer then the answer is that the more you use ANY MECHANICAL PART THE MORE WEAR. So, you may have a better charged spring but have to service more often. Or someone may say that a spring may create a slightly faster rate when fully wound and slightly slower when at end of cycle. ( I don’t know if it’s true but I can see how it would be) or some may say an automatic is wound all the time.... and some may say once a day, and others whenever you fancy. I have a 1912 Waltham that I would every 12 hours more or less when I wear it. I have a Panera’s with a huge reserve.

The point ( to me) is, if you have to worry about it then it’s the wrong watch ( for me) the watch serves me. I wind it when I want to, if I don’t it stops and then I set it and wind it. If there is a difference of 1/2 a second or, for my purposes even half a minute because of how many times or at what time I wound it, I don’t give a damn. I don’t live or work in a world or it really makes a difference, and the last thing I want to do is spend thousands of dollars on a watch to worry about it. That’s just me, the luxury of the hobby for me is to enjoy it, not get anxious over it.

If there is a time to wind it, I don’t care. I’m not going to stop what I’m doing to worry about it.

Just me
 
larryganz
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Nobel Prize Nobel Prize
It’s not that the questions are stupid, not to me anyway; it’s that they are not relevant.

If you’re a mechanical engineer then the answer is that the more you use ANY MECHANICAL PART THE MORE WEAR. So, you may have a better charged spring but have to service more often. Or someone may say that a spring may create a slightly faster rate when fully wound and slightly slower when at end of cycle. ( I don’t know if it’s true but I can see how it would be) or some may say an automatic is wound all the time.... and some may say once a day, and others whenever you fancy. I have a 1912 Waltham that I would every 12 hours more or less when I wear it. I have a Panera’s with a huge reserve.

The point ( to me) is, if you have to worry about it then it’s the wrong watch ( for me) the watch serves me. I wind it when I want to, if I don’t it stops and then I set it and wind it. If there is a difference of 1/2 a second or, for my purposes even half a minute because of how many times or at what time I wound it, I don’t give a damn. I don’t live or work in a world or it really makes a difference, and the last thing I want to do is spend thousands of dollars on a watch to worry about it. That’s just me, the luxury of the hobby for me is to enjoy it, not get anxious over it.

If there is a time to wind it, I don’t care. I’m not going to stop what I’m doing to worry about it.

Just me

I am not a watchmaker, and @Archer may come in and destroy everything I say here, soon (it's expected). Timing can also be affected by the power in the mainspring, which might change the amplitude or speed of the balance wheel. But most modern watches are designed to have a reasonably steady amplitude during the first 24 hours of wind, so it shouldn't be necessary to wind more often than every 24 hours.

I do know that timing accuracy can change between full wind and 24 hours later, and I think that Omega allows a more lax delta in various positional timing rates after 24 hours than they do at full wind.

I was once told, a long time ago, to not wind too often because that can add wear to the parts involved. But it seemed to me that if you turn the crown a full 24 turns 1x a day, then how is that different from 8 turns 3x a day (= 24)? So, it was asked before here, whether there is a downside to winding more often, and I wonder if it might affect the longevity of the mainspring (keeping it tight all the time, not letting it run out)?
 
Foo2rama
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Evitzee Evitzee
My Seiko Spring Drive GMT watch runs at a consistent +0.2 sec/day with no batteries. If you want supreme accuracy in an autonomous watch that is the way to go. Otherwise, just enjoy your mechanical watches and don't obsess over the accuracy.

Exactly... I also had a secondary hidden meaning.

Also note while the Swiss are motivated by non interaction, the Japanese value it and take it to the next level. A watch that requires zero intervention is prized hence why the spring drive is a prized marvel and big seller in japan and not so much in the west. It’s a different way of looking at horological supremacy.

I’m sure in a perfect world Swiss would want the main spring at the most similar winding state constantly, which would involve multiple windings a day... that’s not very user friendly though....

A happy medium.
 
Riviera Paradise
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77deluxe 77deluxe
Or planet.
Right on the money, mate, right on the money...it's all relative, right geezer? Like that funny bloke with his tongue out once said, how can I shave looking at the mirror when I'm catching the tube at night...or was it at the speed of light? I digest...
 
tyrantlizardrex
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I’m unsure how this thread has run to 6 pages without pictures, so here are some Speedmaster Professionals.

2E679AB4-3C75-4B47-B3E9-1BA2EDA5E411.jpeg 261812B4-44D4-44F7-B41E-4D72DE839680.jpeg


These get wound when I put them on. One of them I’ve had for 17 years. So far no problems. Much easier to enjoy the nice things you have, when you stop trying to find things to worry about.
 
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