Home Ownership Vent...

mehqwatches · Jan 10, 2023

ghce
Yeah a lot of people dream of home ownership.
Over the last 2 years had to completely replace the whole kitchen due to a high pressure hot water leak.
Replaced 2 hot water cylinders, one of them twice!
Had to replace 2 bedroom ceilings due to header tank failure then the next year a one in a hundred year rain storm with gale force winds. 1 other bedroom wall due to said storm, not to mention other minor maintenance issues that any home has. Thank god for insurance or I would be out more than 50K in just 2 years!

I think everyone that owns properties has their own lovely tales to tell haha. But at the end of the mortgage you do generally have something worth a lot of money that’s yours!

Dan S · Jan 10, 2023

When I first bought my home, I did a lot of work myself, since I'm comfortable doing plumbing and electrical repairs and small jobs like installing fixtures, etc. I hired an electrician for major things, like changing out the breaker box. I also did a lot of finish carpentry, installed built-ins, and lots of other things. I saved tens of thousands of dollars. So in recent years, I decided to give myself a break and hire some tradespeople even for minor things, thinking it would be a luxury and save myself some trouble. I have lower back problems, which can make a lot of that type of work very uncomfortable. Yes, they charge a lot, but I don't really mind too much, everything is expensive these days and I justified it by thinking that I had saved a lot by doing my own work in the past. One thing that really aggravates me is that they frequently do such half-ass and careless work; I often have to re-do their work completely and/or make cosmetic repairs that would not have been necessary if I had done it myself. An HVAC company once created a huge job for me with the damage they caused to my Radon mitigation system, even though I had discussed it with them in advance.

Another thing ... in the past, if I did want to hire an electrician or plumber, I could sometimes find a good independent contractor. Now it seems like everything has consolidated, and the only option are the big operations with branded trucks, who do everything ... electrical, plumbing, HVAC. I really hate those companies. My sense is that they hire the least experienced tradespeople and pay them the minimum, while price-gouging the customer. And there's no relationship or accountability. It's especially galling that they have absurd fixed prices for a given type of job. One example, I hired one of these companies to install a washer/dryer hookup. A plumber came out and estimated 3 hours. I told him I thought it would probably only take him an hour or an hour and a half. He said they always estimate 3 hours for this job because they don't know what they will find when they open the drywall. So I asked him if the price would be less if it only took him an hour, and he said no, it was basically a fixed price. I was already on the hook for the $120 they charge to come out to the house, so I told him to go ahead. It took him 45 minutes and they charged me about $500 IIRC. The drywall repair took me longer. Nice young guy, and his work was fine, so I didn't regret it too much. But I sure won't use them again for plumbing work.

ghce · Jan 10, 2023

Dan S
When I first bought my home, I did a lot of work myself, since I'm comfortable doing plumbing and electrical repairs and small jobs like installing fixtures, etc. I hired an electrician for major things, like changing out the breaker box. I also did a lot of finish carpentry, installed built-ins, and lots of other things. I saved tens of thousands of dollars. So in recent years, I decided to give myself a break and hire some tradespeople even for minor things, thinking it would be a luxury and save myself some trouble. I have lower back problems, which can make a lot of that type of work very uncomfortable. Yes, they charge a lot, but I don't really mind too much, everything is expensive these days and I justified it by thinking that I had saved a lot by doing my own work in the past. One thing that really aggravates me is that they frequently do such half-ass and careless work; I often have to re-do their work completely and/or make cosmetic repairs that would not have been necessary if I had done it myself. An HVAC company once created a huge job for me with the damage they caused to my Radon mitigation system, even though I had discussed it with them in advance.

Another thing ... in the past, if I did want to hire an electrician or plumber, I could sometimes find a good independent contractor. Now it seems like everything has consolidated, and the only option are the big operations with branded trucks, who do everything ... electrical, plumbing, HVAC. I really hate those companies. My sense is that they hire the least experienced tradespeople and pay them the minimum, while price-gouging the customer. And there's no relationship or accountability. It's especially galling that they have absurd fixed prices for a given type of job. One example, I hired one of these companies to install a washer/dryer hookup. A plumber came out and estimated 3 hours. I told him I thought it would probably only take him an hour or an hour and a half. He said they always estimate 3 hours for this job because they don't know what they will find when they open the drywall. So I asked him if the price would be less if it only took him an hour, and he said no, it was basically a fixed price. I was already on the hook for the $120 they charge to come out to the house, so I told him to go ahead. It took him 45 minutes and they charged me about $500 IIRC. The drywall repair took me longer. Nice young guy, and his work was fine, so I didn't regret it too much. But I sure won't use them again for plumbing work.

All too common is the half assed tradesman.

When first I started work ( and bought a house) back in 1980, the place I worked in was all very skilled in technical and hardware building ( electrical / electronic engineering) with all the employees having great skills in the design and construction of all things, it was a saying that permeated the workforce "f'n tradesmen" and it didn't take me long to work out why!

Like you I was proficient at most things and did all my own work only occasionally calling on the services of " professional tradespeople" there were very few jobs that I didn't have to redo after they were finished their work.

I pity those that have no clue as to all things electrical / mechanical or plumbing as they are at the mercy of these clowns but having disparaged them so completely I must say that some I met along the way were actually very good but that the preponderance of the rest was very poor.

As I am advancing in years I dread the day that I need rely on these people.

SC1 · Jan 10, 2023

Dan S
When I first bought my home, I did a lot of work myself, since I'm comfortable doing plumbing and electrical repairs and small jobs like installing fixtures, etc. I hired an electrician for major things, like changing out the breaker box. I also did a lot of finish carpentry, installed built-ins, and lots of other things. I saved tens of thousands of dollars. So in recent years, I decided to give myself a break and hire some tradespeople even for minor things, thinking it would be a luxury and save myself some trouble. I have lower back problems, which can make a lot of that type of work very uncomfortable. Yes, they charge a lot, but I don't really mind too much, everything is expensive these days and I justified it by thinking that I had saved a lot by doing my own work in the past. One thing that really aggravates me is that they frequently do such half-ass and careless work; I often have to re-do their work completely and/or make cosmetic repairs that would not have been necessary if I had done it myself. An HVAC company once created a huge job for me with the damage they caused to my Radon mitigation system, even though I had discussed it with them in advance.

Another thing ... in the past, if I did want to hire an electrician or plumber, I could sometimes find a good independent contractor. Now it seems like everything has consolidated, and the only option are the big operations with branded trucks, who do everything ... electrical, plumbing, HVAC. I really hate those companies. My sense is that they hire the least experienced tradespeople and pay them the minimum, while price-gouging the customer. And there's no relationship or accountability. It's especially galling that they have absurd fixed prices for a given type of job. One example, I hired one of these companies to install a washer/dryer hookup. A plumber came out and estimated 3 hours. I told him I thought it would probably only take him an hour or an hour and a half. He said they always estimate 3 hours for this job because they don't know what they will find when they open the drywall. So I asked him if the price would be less if it only took him an hour, and he said no, it was basically a fixed price. I was already on the hook for the $120 they charge to come out to the house, so I told him to go ahead. It took him 45 minutes and they charged me about $500 IIRC. The drywall repair took me longer. Nice young guy, and his work was fine, so I didn't regret it too much. But I sure won't use them again for plumbing work.

Same shit drives me insane... it's worthless but I tell every tradesperson that comes here, "Please treat this job like it's your house, and if you don't own a house, like it's your mom's house or if she doesn't own - it's your boss's house." Makes me feel better but it's bullshit to them I'm sure.

The accountability and half stepping is what really gets my ass bunched up.

Pastorbottle · Jan 10, 2023

Being in the industrial engineering sector, I deal with many trades.
Unlike proper tradesmen like mechanical fitters, the lesser trades such as the plumbing and electrical trades leave a bit to be desired.
Most boilermakers can weld beautifully, but due to their propensity to bash the shit outta things with big hammers and attack everything with a 235mm (9”) angle grinder they need constant supervision.

Plumbers only need to know 2 things: Shit runs down hill and payday is Thursday!

And electricity is dangerous stuff so we only bother sending expendable idiots to work on it, in case they grab a big handful of volts…. When that happens we just send another idiot!

JwRosenthal · Jan 10, 2023

Pastorbottle
Being in the industrial engineering sector, I deal with many trades.
Unlike proper tradesmen like mechanical fitters, the lesser trades such as the plumbing and electrical trades leave a bit to be desired.
Most boilermakers can weld beautifully, but due to their propensity to bash the shit outta things with big hammers and attack everything with a 235mm (9”)angle grinder they need constant supervision.

Plumbers only need to know 2 things: Shit runs down hill and payday is Thursday!

And electricity is dangerous stuff so we only bother sending expendable idiots to work on it, in case they grab a big handful of volts…. When that happens we just send another idiot!

I found this post to be simultaneously hilarious and highly offensive..I feel so conflicted

Pastorbottle · Jan 10, 2023

JwRosenthal
I found this post to be simultaneously hilarious and highly offensive..I feel so conflicted

My work here is done!

SC1 · Jan 11, 2023

Pastorbottle
Being in the industrial engineering sector, I deal with many trades.
Unlike proper tradesmen like mechanical fitters, the lesser trades such as the plumbing and electrical trades leave a bit to be desired.
Most boilermakers can weld beautifully, but due to their propensity to bash the shit outta things with big hammers and attack everything with a 235mm (9”) angle grinder they need constant supervision.

Plumbers only need to know 2 things: Shit runs down hill and payday is Thursday!

And electricity is dangerous stuff so we only bother sending expendable idiots to work on it, in case they grab a big handful of volts…. When that happens we just send another idiot!

Considering having this tattooed on my forearm for the various tradespeople yet to be summoned in my career as a homeowner.

Pure gold, thank you sir!

STANDY · Jan 11, 2023

Butcher by trade…. Go hunting and fishing with heaps of tradies, I fillet the fish and cut up buffalo’s they do stuff at my place whenever needed for gratis. 😗

You need to mingle with tradies more guys 😗

JwRosenthal · Jan 11, 2023

STANDY
Butcher by trade…. Go hunting and fishing with heaps of tradies, I fillet the fish and cut up buffalo’s they do stuff at my place whenever needed for gratis. 😗

You need to mingle with tradies more guys 😗

I really think it may be an American thing (could be wrong of course) that being the expectation that if you are going to hire a professional for a job, than they will not only bring their expertise but also behave in a professional manner.
I had a Cooper gutter contractor redo all of my gutters (in copper) 20 years ago. He said he specialized in copper and charged me accordingly. Came to find out 3 years later that he used galvanized hardware throughout and it was rusting out. Had I know he didn’t have copper hardware on his truck, I would have gone and bought it for him or paid the extra $200 to get it himself. But I had to have another company take it all down and rehang it. The first guy also hung all the gutters level rather than pitched so the water wasn't running towards the downspouts.

Do the job right and you get a happy customer that tells 3 people. Do it wrong and you get an unhappy customer that tells 10. In the era of the internet, that multiplies by a factor of 1k

Pastorbottle · Jan 11, 2023

When I was a young fella I wanted to become an electrician……. But my dad said no, he said I was gonna have to work for a living and get a trade!
🍿
The first module of trade school for electricians is
“Bitching and moaning” it’s imperative that they get expressions such as: “It’s not my job” down pat.

The next module is “Making a Mess” they have to learn such skills as leaving little bits of discarded insulation and trimmed off filaments of copper wire everywhere from arsehole to breakfast!
They also need to master the art of getting plaster dust, saw dust and metal swarf ground deeply into all surfaces the more expensive, decorative and highly polished the better!

This module is closely followed by one that covers broom and vacuum cleaner avoidance, they are brainwashed ( let’s face it the brain is the only thing that has ever been washed) into believing that brooms are actually tiger snakes.
I have to write notices on all the brooms, informing them that it is only a broom and not a tiger snake and as such it’s safe to pick up and use.

Of course there is a module for writing bills and invoices, this entails gaining the ability to write many zeros with a comma at every third one.

There are many other modules such as “Always Turn Up Late or Don’t Turn Up At All”
And another very important module on showing excessive hairy arse crack whenever you bend over (plumbers have to do this module too as well as the turning up late and writing bills and invoices ones )

I believe that there are even elective modules involving electricity, but I’ve never met anyone that bothered with these.
😁

Fallout Boy · Jan 11, 2023

With every project with "craftsmen" here in Southern France I say to myself: There is a possibility that the list of unwanted encounters will increase.
My neighbour says, the craftsmen-credo here is: I can do everything but nothing right.

I must admit: I am German. 😁

Fallout Boy · Jan 11, 2023

Pastorbottle
The first module of trade school for electricians is
“Bitching and moaning”

IMHO: Learning through suffering. 😁

STANDY · Jan 11, 2023

JwRosenthal
I had a Cooper gutter contractor redo all of my gutters (in copper) 20 years ago.

Wet season it rains so heavy houses rarely have guttering in Northern Australia. Weight of the water would rip them off 😁 $$$ saving right there….

SC1 · Jan 11, 2023

Man is this thread hitting me...

Brand new roof, part of our purchase requirements, leaked from day One ~ 16 months later it was finally fixed (fortunately we live in the desert but when it rains here it rains hard). Original roofer skipped town, reemerged but then couldn't do it because he was robbed and beaten up apparently (karma?), so we moved onto a grand total of eight more roofing companies - seven of which did nothing but shit talk the job and claim the leak didn't need fixing the entire roof needed pulled and replaced. Finally number eight, found the issue and repaired it in four hours for $500.

The aforementioned electrical bullshit.

Irrigation pipes burst last winter... four different landscape & irrigation guys came out and moaned about the shit job that had been done originally and wouldn't touch the repair unless they could pull everything and do it over... estimates ranged from 12k to this one bloated peckerweed who walked the property eating Cheetos with Cheeto powder cascading down his triple chin onto his 24 month pregnant gut and then blurted out, "I can do this right, twenty seven thousand with a 36 month guarantee." Told him to go fυck himself - I was at the end of my rope and also knew he could never kick my ass because he couldn't catch me. Called me a "SUNNABITCH" and drove away.
Next day Googled the job, read up, watched two YouTube videos, bought tools and did the damn thing myself.

Huge back deck with about 4000 coats of paint that was seriously dry rotting... called a decking company - astronomical, called a concrete contractor - amazingly astronomical, called a start up landscaping & "decorative" 👎 concrete guy... reasonable price but wanted 4k to demo the deck.
Demo'd it myself during July, just about killed me (each day was around 112 degrees) but got it done and saved some coin on the job.
They came out to do the job two months late, did a great job on this small area of astro turf but the main thrust of the job, the concrete, seriously screwed up the French drains (it floods now when it rains) and the concrete itself - I know concrete cracks - but this stuff is cracking like grandma's Christmas rock candy.
I don't even go out back any longer to avoid being in a pissed off mood.
Wife keeps saying "Once we put raised flower boxes and chairs and tables out there it'll look great!" Bless her. And yeah, only because all that will be covering up the 12 thousand dollars I threw away on the job.

Not dropping a single dime on improvements until I recover my sanity from all this -- and find tradespeople that come with a huge list of vouches from folks I know and trust.

ghce · Jan 11, 2023

SC1
Man is this thread hitting me...

Brand new roof, part of our purchase requirements, leaked from day One ~ 16 months later it was finally fixed (fortunately we live in the desert but when it rains here it rains hard). Original roofer skipped town, reemerged but then couldn't do it because he was robbed and beaten up apparently (karma?), so we moved onto a grand total of eight more roofing companies - seven of which did nothing but shit talk the job and claim the leak didn't need fixing the entire roof needed pulled and replaced. Finally number eight, found the issue and repaired it in four hours for $500.

The aforementioned electrical bullshit.

Irrigation pipes burst last winter... four different landscape & irrigation guys came out and moaned about the shit job that had been done originally and wouldn't touch the repair unless they could pull everything and do it over... estimates ranged from 12k to this one bloated peckerweed who walked the property eating Cheetos with Cheeto powder cascading down his triple chin onto his 24 month pregnant gut and then blurted out, "I can do this right, twenty seven thousand with a 36 month guarantee." Told him to go fυck himself - I was at the end of my rope and also knew he could never kick my ass because he couldn't catch me. Called me a "SUNNABITCH" and drove away.
Next day Googled the job, read up, watched two YouTube videos, bought tools and did the damn thing myself.

Huge back deck with about 4000 coats of paint that was seriously dry rotting... called a decking company - astronomical, called a concrete contractor - amazingly astronomical, called a start up landscaping & "decorative" 👎 concrete guy... reasonable price but wanted 4k to demo the deck.
Demo'd it myself during July, just about killed me (each day was around 112 degrees) but got it done and saved some coin on the job.
They came out to do the job two months late, did a great job on this small area of astro turf but the main thrust of the job, the concrete, seriously screwed up the French drains (it floods now when it rains) and the concrete itself - I know concrete cracks - but this stuff is cracking like grandma's Christmas rock candy.
I don't even go out back any longer to avoid being in a pissed off mood.
Wife keeps saying "Once we put raised flower boxes and chairs and tables out there it'll look great!" Bless her. And yeah, only because all that will be covering up the 12 thousand dollars I threw away on the job.

Not dropping a single dime on improvements until I recover my sanity from all this -- and find tradespeople that come with a huge list of vouches from folks I know and trust.

Yep, that sounds like the same as my experiences over the last 15 or so years, astronomical quoted prices so that they can afford a Range Rover for the wife and the latest boat for themselves.
I make it my business to check out what they drive and where they live, monetary success in the trades rarely comes down to expertise.

Pastorbottle · Jan 11, 2023

A mate of mine had a absolutely rotten timber roofing truss in his house, a lattice work type of design made up with 75mm x 50mm struts (3” x 2”) with reinforcing gussets at all the joints. The problem was that this was highly visible and needed to match the rest of them.
He was quoted all sorts of jaw dropping exorbitant rates to replace it.
He came to me and asked if I could maybe knock something up outta steel, what I came up with used galvanised “C” section perlins bolted together with galvanised steel fish plates to gusset the joints.
The result was lighter, stronger, longer lasting than what was there, all whist mirroring the layout of the other trusses.
All at a cost of less than a third of the cheapest quote.
If fact the hire of the scaffolding required to put it up was the biggest single expense of the whole project.

JMO1995 · Jan 11, 2023

I sincerely hope that we do not run into as many issues as some of you on here with our home and future homes and so far in the 4.5 years we’ve lived in our first home we haven’t had too many issues that have caused us to pay out personally (we’ve had many issues but we bought a new build house so the builder was liable to fix everything).

On the odd occasion where I’ve need help though I fortunately have friends who are in certain trades. I recently changed our kitchen tap and about half way through I realised that the new tap had a female fitting and so did the pipe work I was fitting it to, called up my mate who’s a plumber and he had a male thread and came over straight away to help me out. He didn’t want anything for it so I bought him a bottle of spirit and some beers he likes as a thank you.

JimInOz · Jan 11, 2023

New house.
Installers went to fit the oven in the wall cavity.
Too narrow.
Called the project manager.
Tradie came, used an electric plane to trim the sides, chipped plaster and paint everywhere.
"What about finishing?"
"I only do the chippie stuff mate". Left shit everywhere.
Called the project manager.
Person turns up to do the plastering. Didn't do a bad job but it needed sanding and painting.
"I only do the plastering mate".
Called the project manager.
Person turns up two days late, after I took time off work (again).
"I'm here to do your painting mate".
Me.
"fυck Off! Mate!"

vbrad26 · Jan 11, 2023

Oh man the joys of home ownership! We have been in our current house for 3 and a half years and have probably put $100k into it in that time.
Some of it voluntary, some of it not.
Just gave an electrician $1200 yesterday to add 2 exterior outlets (both of which were just tapped into existing boxes that were already there for the interior outlets) and to move an existing outlet up the wall for a wall mounted TV! And we still gotta patch the wall! Lol.
I feel like I could have done it myself, but I don't like to mess with electricity too much if I don't have to...

Home Ownership Vent...

mehqwatches

Dan S

ghce

SC1

Pastorbottle

JwRosenthal

Pastorbottle

SC1

STANDY

JwRosenthal

Pastorbottle

Fallout Boy

Fallout Boy

STANDY

SC1

ghce

Pastorbottle

JMO1995

JimInOz

vbrad26

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