Hodinkee LE Leica

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But I assume no "professional" would pay a premium for a limited edition put out by a watch blog/site/store...
good point
 
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most everyone is in agreement Leicas are great cameras but $15k is overpriced for a dinked LE.
 
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For me, Leica is bit confusing. It is the camera I often see in pictures placed next to a watch etc. But then what camera is used to take the picture? Do I have to buy two Leicas, one to take the picture with and another to be pictured to show that I have one? 😁 🤨
Seriously, I don't know how many images I see are taken with a Leica, but I know thousands of pictures taken about them.
It’s too expensive to actually take pictures with, that would devalue it.

Hodinkee have disappeared up their own....
 
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But I assume no "professional" would pay a premium for a limited edition put out by a watch blog/site/store...

The marketing here works clearly, but in some ways I have no idea why. I understand that Ben has a connection to this camera, and to the Omega Mk. 40, but I don't and I assume most of those who buy this stuff don't. Why it is that his connection to these items is something people want to get in on? No idea...

I agree 100%. I meant to say that high-end camera gear always has some serious sticker shock. To your point, I agree that this model is conspicuous consumption that likely won't appeal to a pro who just needs a great tool to get the work done.

I think most pros also find brand loyalty to be silly in general. I've shot Canon, Sony, and now mostly Red. If Arri dropped a better item in my price range, I wouldn't care at all about selling off the Red. These are tools.
 
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I agree 100%. I meant to say that high-end camera gear always has some serious sticker shock. To your point, I agree that this model is conspicuous consumption that likely won't appeal to a pro who just needs a great tool to get the work done.

I think most pros also find brand loyalty to be silly in general. I've shot Canon, Sony, and now mostly Red. If Arri dropped a better item in my price range, I wouldn't care at all about selling off the Red. These are tools.

Most professionals take the same approach - be it photography or watchmaking. The brand loyalties that consumers display are not really a factor when it comes to tools to do the job - you buy what works best.
 
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lol i've never in my life seen an avg person using a $15,000 Leica (though plenty of $15,000 watches), I must not hang around the people with that kind of disposable income!

Seen quite a few Leica's out in the wild, the first was whilst walking the fells in Cumbria, ended up talking to a guy and his wife as they took pictures of a small waterfall, he had a M9 she a Q1, both liked the build quality, reputation and image quality. The second was in Cornwall, early one morning at Godrevy Point a fellow photographer rolled up and pulled out a brace of M10's, mounted them on a tripod bracket that he had custom made to fit both cameras, one had a 28mm the other a 50mm which he proceeded to replace with a telephoto, the guy liked to take wide and telephoto images at the same time but didn't like zoom lenses. He was into street photography but liked shooting landscapes occasionally and built the bracket to allow two camera to be set up on a single tripod.

Last week whilst in London there was a group of Chinese tourists in the British Museum, and there were at least 3 Leica's M cameras being used and a couple of Q's couldn't see whether 1 or 2. The group also had a few Canon and Nikon users as well.

For camera aficionados also seen at the British Museum on the same day was a young lady, early 20's hand holding a Mamiya RZ67, she was studying photography at a London university and was using film for her course work, she had tried using a tripod at the museum but got asked to put it away so hand holding or resting the camera on walls or other sturdy object was her way round the problem.

It's amazing what cameras you see when you are out and about.
 
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I own a Leica MD 262 which doesn’t have a screen. It’s digital camera that looks and feels like a film camera. I bought it for 3500 on ebay, lightly used. I love that camera.
 
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@Archer do you have any familiarity with the company they're using for the movement? Lehmann Präzision

"For [the movement] Leica is partnering with Lehmann Präzision, a company based in the Black Forest that makes both high-precision machinery (used in the watchmaking industry) and its own line of watches under the name Lehmann Schramberg, though the latter aren't very well known outside of Germany. This allows Leica to keep the manufacturing in Germany and to get a movement that isn't something you'll find in countless ébauche-based watches. This last point is something that the company is emphatic was a top priority."

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/leica-watch-l1-l2-introducing
 
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If i wanted an expensive camera, i would go for this one:
83acde85c094f8e54bc4ce5a054ae4b397a7afa2_cfvii-907x-se-45frontright-copy1.png

b7c73d225e93fe127ba8196da8f3db0c4e557226_final_cfvii-907x-se-side-left.jpg
 
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Basically a $1500 premium for the color and the Hodinkee kool aid, as the same camera retails for $7995 and the same lens retails for $5495.

Given the Hodinkee of today I’m honestly surprised this premium isn’t more... that being said, the regular Leica M10-P and 35mm lens is my dream set up and one day it shall be mine, but I wouldn’t pay $15 more for this edition, let alone $1500.
 
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Hello!

Trust it to be a non-watch related thread that prompts my first post...

Anyway, my thoughts on Leica, as a long-time user (but by no means an expert);

Firstly, you are probably not a million miles away from the mark with your Rolex analogy, but I'll come back to that.

Historically, the Leica 'M' system has a track record of making reliable mechanical tools for photographers in a small and inconspicuous form. The camera bodies (usually) took the form of a robust chunk of brass housing the intricate, entirely mechanical, shutter assembly and precise rangefinder focusing system. This combination of usability and precision could then be paired with the 'M' mount lenses, which in themselves were engineering marvels of a sort. These lenses were regarded as being exceptional in the way that they translated light into images and were often the 'fastest' (i.e. allowing the most amount of light into the camera and therefore letting a 'faster' shutter speed to be used). These are some of the factors that attracted prominent photographers throughout the 20th Century to use Leica cameras as tools of their trade. Indeed, some of the most iconic photographs ever taken (a bold statement, I know!) have been taken using Leica cameras. It is this professional following that I think has, over time, trickled down to make them an attractive option for the well-heeled enthusiast.

To make a kind of comparison (apologies in advance if this is blasphemous!) - the way that Newman is associated with the Daytona, Henri Cartier-Bresson can be associated with Leica cameras. I've resisted drawing parallels with the Speedy Pro because it would be better compared with the Hasselblad V-System (which went to, and stayed on the moon!).

Fast-forward to the turn of the Millennium and film is starting to be superseded by digital cameras. Leica have historically been conservative in their development of the 'M' system (see the M5 for an attempted departure) and the technology did not immediately lend itself towards a digital 'M'. I'd say that at this time the system was becoming a fairly niche product. However, as the technology allowed, Leica were able to release digital 'M' camera bodies, though these were bulky compared with the film bodies and often compromised in one way or another.

In recent years, they have been able to shoe-horn a decent-ish full-sized sensor into a small form factor which is similar to the original form of the film cameras. A few years ago, I took the plunge and added a digital 'M' to go along-side my film body from the early 90's.

A few notes on ownership;

Just about everything on a Leica M is manual, or at least that is the underlying ethos of using one (some of the newer ones have automated features). Using one is akin to driving a fully manual car without power steering or playing golf with a set of forged blades. Neither is going to be easy and neither is likely to get the best results most of the time. However, when you do get it right it feels great - and that is the way with a Leica M. I've missed hundreds of pictures when I've been faffing around with the shutter setting or not managing to nail the focus on time before the scene changes and the opportunity is gone. But some of my favorite pictures have been taken on a Leica, and it certainly adds something just to know that you did everything that went into making it come together as a picture. For that reason, as well as the fact that the camera is extremely tactile, I find 'M's a joy to use.

It's a bit like purposefully constraining yourself in order to make yourself work a bit harder at your photography. But it does seem a bit odd to pay more (as they are a chunk more expensive than an equivalent Nikon/Canon etc) to get less - the sensor within the camera isn't even as 'good' as the contemporary DSLR sensors. For me, I accepted at the time that the premium was worth it for the ability to use Leica lenses as well as the enjoyment of using the small form factor.

As time goes on, however, I get the feeling that Leica is heading away from its original ethos where they were expensive because they were handmade and bombproof. Their cameras are starting to seem to be more in-line with the rest of the marketplace, with the 'expense' being built on its brand strength and marketing. I was really disappointed to read an article from them recently, where they were in the 'Highlands of Scotland' looking at people who work on the land. Coincidentally, I live and work in the Highlands of Scotland and spend most of my time working on the land. I just felt that the whole marketing campaign was BS - a 'guest' photographer, the subjects of the photographs were dressed by a stylist in 'partnership' with Belstaff, so farmers were wearing £500 jackets to milk their cows, which is absurd. The whole struck me as style over substance and the article lacked integrity. I'm starting to feel that the same might be true of their own products, and this latest collaboration seems in line with a strategy that focuses more on the camera as an object, rather than the object of the camera (i.e. the images that it produces).

In saying that, I would be lying if I said that I didn't covet the fundamental design of the camera, in fact I love it! Though, for me it has to always be about the end product and to some extent how it has been produced. There's an irony that whilst writing this post an email has popped up on my phone, announcing the release of a new Leica lens (a Summilux 90mm f/1.5 ASPH for those interested) and I just know it is going to be stellar. And then you get to the price...

Apologies for the long post - just some thoughts and an attempt to answer your question.
 
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@Archer do you have any familiarity with the company they're using for the movement? Lehmann Präzisiong

Nope - never heard of them.
 
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Hello!

Trust it to be a non-watch related thread that prompts my first post...

Anyway, my thoughts on Leica, as a long-time user (but by no means an expert);

Firstly, you are probably not a million miles away from the mark with your Rolex analogy, but I'll come back to that.

Historically, the Leica 'M' system has a track record of making reliable mechanical tools for photographers in a small and inconspicuous form. The camera bodies (usually) took the form of a robust chunk of brass housing the intricate, entirely mechanical, shutter assembly and precise rangefinder focusing system. This combination of usability and precision could then be paired with the 'M' mount lenses, which in themselves were engineering marvels of a sort. These lenses were regarded as being exceptional in the way that they translated light into images and were often the 'fastest' (i.e. allowing the most amount of light into the camera and therefore letting a 'faster' shutter speed to be used). These are some of the factors that attracted prominent photographers throughout the 20th Century to use Leica cameras as tools of their trade. Indeed, some of the most iconic photographs ever taken (a bold statement, I know!) have been taken using Leica cameras. It is this professional following that I think has, over time, trickled down to make them an attractive option for the well-heeled enthusiast.

To make a kind of comparison (apologies in advance if this is blasphemous!) - the way that Newman is associated with the Daytona, Henri Cartier-Bresson can be associated with Leica cameras. I've resisted drawing parallels with the Speedy Pro because it would be better compared with the Hasselblad V-System (which went to, and stayed on the moon!).

Fast-forward to the turn of the Millennium and film is starting to be superseded by digital cameras. Leica have historically been conservative in their development of the 'M' system (see the M5 for an attempted departure) and the technology did not immediately lend itself towards a digital 'M'. I'd say that at this time the system was becoming a fairly niche product. However, as the technology allowed, Leica were able to release digital 'M' camera bodies, though these were bulky compared with the film bodies and often compromised in one way or another.

In recent years, they have been able to shoe-horn a decent-ish full-sized sensor into a small form factor which is similar to the original form of the film cameras. A few years ago, I took the plunge and added a digital 'M' to go along-side my film body from the early 90's.

A few notes on ownership;

Just about everything on a Leica M is manual, or at least that is the underlying ethos of using one (some of the newer ones have automated features). Using one is akin to driving a fully manual car without power steering or playing golf with a set of forged blades. Neither is going to be easy and neither is likely to get the best results most of the time. However, when you do get it right it feels great - and that is the way with a Leica M. I've missed hundreds of pictures when I've been faffing around with the shutter setting or not managing to nail the focus on time before the scene changes and the opportunity is gone. But some of my favorite pictures have been taken on a Leica, and it certainly adds something just to know that you did everything that went into making it come together as a picture. For that reason, as well as the fact that the camera is extremely tactile, I find 'M's a joy to use.

It's a bit like purposefully constraining yourself in order to make yourself work a bit harder at your photography. But it does seem a bit odd to pay more (as they are a chunk more expensive than an equivalent Nikon/Canon etc) to get less - the sensor within the camera isn't even as 'good' as the contemporary DSLR sensors. For me, I accepted at the time that the premium was worth it for the ability to use Leica lenses as well as the enjoyment of using the small form factor.

As time goes on, however, I get the feeling that Leica is heading away from its original ethos where they were expensive because they were handmade and bombproof. Their cameras are starting to seem to be more in-line with the rest of the marketplace, with the 'expense' being built on its brand strength and marketing. I was really disappointed to read an article from them recently, where they were in the 'Highlands of Scotland' looking at people who work on the land. Coincidentally, I live and work in the Highlands of Scotland and spend most of my time working on the land. I just felt that the whole marketing campaign was BS - a 'guest' photographer, the subjects of the photographs were dressed by a stylist in 'partnership' with Belstaff, so farmers were wearing £500 jackets to milk their cows, which is absurd. The whole struck me as style over substance and the article lacked integrity. I'm starting to feel that the same might be true of their own products, and this latest collaboration seems in line with a strategy that focuses more on the camera as an object, rather than the object of the camera (i.e. the images that it produces).

In saying that, I would be lying if I said that I didn't covet the fundamental design of the camera, in fact I love it! Though, for me it has to always be about the end product and to some extent how it has been produced. There's an irony that whilst writing this post an email has popped up on my phone, announcing the release of a new Leica lens (a Summilux 90mm f/1.5 ASPH for those interested) and I just know it is going to be stellar. And then you get to the price...

Apologies for the long post - just some thoughts and an attempt to answer your question.

Great first post!
 
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giphy.gif

First I thought that it costs 1500$ and I was going to say, why the hell would I pay that much money when I can get such photos with less dollars spent.

Now I see that it costs 15,000$ and I'm going to say: why the hell would I pay that much money when I can get such photos with less dollars spent.

The camera is good looking though. 😎 But that's not why you buy it...
 
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I knew that this LE would elicit a number of scoffs in the community, but for all the reasons stated here, it's really not that crazy of a partnership or price point (relative to Leica's non-LE lineup). Leica has become an aspirational brand in the same way that the most iconic watch brands have, and the fully-mechanical / rangefinder usage in their digital cameras allows photographers to feel connected to old film photography. Sure, you can get better quality pictures for less money and far easier usage (such as Canon, which I have used for years), but that's kinda not the point of owning a Leica. The comparison is the exact same among watches (think of a G-Shock versus a Seamaster/Sub, for example).

I do not personally own a Leica, but I would certainly like to eventually. They are beautifully made machines, and objectively speaking, the Hodinkee LE is a beautiful iteration of the 10. Just my two cents...
 
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They are beautifully made machines, and objectively speaking, the Hodinkee LE is a beautiful iteration of the 10. Just my two cents...

Indeed it's a nice looking version of the camera, but for me not $15k nice...
 
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1. Part one of Leica's reputation comes from WWII journalism photographers. The cameras were robust and built in such a way that they were easily repaired in the field with simple tools if damaged.
2. Part two of the reputation comes from the lenses. Along with Zeiss, they are usually considered the best ever made. Noctilux, anyone?