Hodinkee Drama Strikes Again

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I get that Al, but really, I'd say the vast majority of dealers out there misrepresent.

Perfect pumpkin patina with fully refinished case on 10 watches? All advertised as original? Take your pick of dealer...

So if everybody does it, it's okay? Look, I know that's not what you are saying (I hope) but if everybody just says "yeah whatever, they all do it" then I don't think that leads to a good place for anyone.
 
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A lot of assumptions that people are “jealous” of Hodinkee’s (or by extension Ben’s) success in these pages as well as other Hodinkee critical conversation. Is this real? Is anyone ACTUALLY sitting at their computer seething that their online watch blog didn’t make it big and capitalize on consumer habits the way Hodinkee did? I tend to think it’s a fairly small (like really small) number of people who could possibly be in a position to come close to comparing let alone be jealous. From my perspective it’s be like me being jealous of Henry Ford for thinking of the assembly line.
However, if what everyone REALLY means is they’re annoyed at consumer tendencies and Hodinkee making money from it - sure. Annoyed that Hodinkee popularized and monetized a hobby ruining it for anyone who isn’t a well-heeled Wall Street investor - okay. I can get on board with these. But jealousy? I just don’t see it. I think that whole line of thought just needs to get dropped. It’s a dead end, illogical train of thought used to defend Hodinkee and deride those who are annoyed with Hodinkee.
 
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So it wouldn't bother you if they sold watches that were misrepresented

Intentionally, or unintentionally?
 
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So if everybody does it, it's okay? Look, I know that's not what you are saying (I hope) but if everybody just says "yeah whatever, they all do it" then I don't think that leads to a good place for anyone.
This is the world we live in
And these are the hands we're given

—From Land of Confusion by Genesis
 
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Stop reading Hodinkee when I found out I’m not their target audience


The typical HODINKEE reader holds a master’s degree or higher, browses from his professional office, earns more than $200,000 per year, owns seven+ watches, and purchases, on average, three watches per year with an average value of $7,000 or higher per watch.

This is from the first page.

yet in 24 hours they are going to release a Casio with John Mayer only a month after they had another partnership with a $500 watch.

Because they probably pissed a lot of people off making a $200 travel alarm $7000. Their only ever brand item that wasn’t someone else’s brand.
Remember there come back, we sell Flik Flak watches for the Hodinkee yuppies kids to get them hooked.
They are playing in and out their own pre set demographics

The only better marketer on the planet is Rolex and at least they have their own watch.

Nothing more that a marketing company nowadays 😉
 
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Intentionally, or unintentionally?

Okay, I assume you are asking this because it would make a difference in your answer?

If your blog or site, where you sell your wares, is a place you are claiming to be a place of expertise, then I'm not sure it matters (unless we are referring to something innocent, like a typo for example). But if you wish to make arguments for either case, I'll be happy to consider them.
 
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Okay, I assume you are asking this because it would make a difference in your answer?

If your blog or site, where you sell your wares, is a place you are claiming to be a place of expertise, then I'm not sure it matters (unless we are referring to something innocent, like a typo for example). But if you wish to make arguments for either case, I'll be happy to consider them.
Surely you don't mean experts like...of...say...I don't know...Master Watch Maker Nick Hacko to give a totally random one...should be held accountable for making totally unintentional mistakes in the very, very difficult field of...oh...say...something like vintage Rolex...do you? I mean, vintage Rolex is really hard to navigate so even experts get tripped up.
😉
 
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Okay, I assume you are asking this because it would make a difference in your answer?

The implication by your question is that you seem to feel an oversight or a rushed posting without nefarious intent is the same as one who purposely and willfully has the intent to deceive. You are either being purposely obtuse, or baiting me for sport, neither of which I’m interested in.
 
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So if everybody does it, it's okay? Look, I know that's not what you are saying (I hope) but if everybody just says "yeah whatever, they all do it" then I don't think that leads to a good place for anyone.

No, that's not what I'm saying. We're both on the same page here as I find many of their watch descriptions laughable.

No, it's not right for a dealer to do that. And probably why I rarely (closer to almost never) visit their website.

Watches, just like any other commodity, needs a healthy dose of caveat emptor.

STANDY said: ↑

Stop reading Hodinkee when I found out I’m not their target audience
View attachment 1099808

The typical HODINKEE reader holds a master’s degree or higher, browses from his professional office, earns more than $200,000 per year, owns seven+ watches, and purchases, on average, three watches per year with an average value of $7,000 or higher per watch.

Funny, because when that came out, I was chatting with one of their senior reviewers. He had no idea where that even came from.
 
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A lot of assumptions that people are “jealous” of Hodinkee’s (or by extension Ben’s) success in these pages as well as other Hodinkee critical conversation. Is this real? Is anyone ACTUALLY sitting at their computer seething that their online watch blog didn’t make it big and capitalize on consumer habits the way Hodinkee did? I tend to think it’s a fairly small (like really small) number of people who could possibly be in a position to come close to comparing let alone be jealous. From my perspective it’s be like me being jealous of Henry Ford for thinking of the assembly line.
However, if what everyone REALLY means is they’re annoyed at consumer tendencies and Hodinkee making money from it - sure. Annoyed that Hodinkee popularized and monetized a hobby ruining it for anyone who isn’t a well-heeled Wall Street investor - okay. I can get on board with these. But jealousy? I just don’t see it. I think that whole line of thought just needs to get dropped. It’s a dead end, illogical train of thought used to defend Hodinkee and deride those who are annoyed with Hodinkee.

Interesting thoughts on here.

But Hodinkee is a now a full-on LIFESTYLE BRAND. Yes, they began as an enthusiast-related website, but once they made a ton of money selling that first LE with Blancpain -- I believe $1,000,000.00 USD of product moved within a few hours -- the dye was cast. Since then, its been a slow but steady march toward "outgrowing" its bloggy roots into becominh a full-on BRAND. I suspect that this didn't happen sooner was in large part the reluctance of the Swiss to fully embrace and understand the online world, but once Hodinkee proved it could influence trends and move very expensive product, the Swiss and the money followed. And COVID supercharged all this. And now Hodinkee is flush with $40+ million dollars of VC money and celebrity investors, like John Mayer and Tom Brady.

I just received a Hodinkee survey. It's clear what the next steps are -- reconfiguring content and selling more than watches and accessories. The most interesting thing about the survey, to me, were the background questions. They asked about interests and provided a pre-set list. What was interesting was what was included, and what was not.

Included: art, architecture, automotive, boating, golfing, design. JEWELRY, literature, SHOPPING, photography . . .

Not included: Diving, hiking, football (American or the proper kind), running, exercise, and basically any activity that requires significant movement and action. All for a website where the vast majority of its regular readership, and I am betting over 90%, is male. Hodinkee is consciously becoming an "anti-bro-culture lifestyle brand."

I have to say, it all sounds far too effete for me (shopping, really?!), but I have the give Clymer props. He has recognized a market need and has exploited it, and took a glacially slow adapting, incestuous, tradition-heavy and hidebound industry facing its second existential crisis in 40 years along with him. Forty million dollars of VC money (and counting) all from an enthusiast-driven blog covering a relatively niche product for old men.

Besides, it isn't like there is a paucity of watch-enthusiast content out there. If anything, there is too much, all writing for same thing at the same time.
Edited:
 
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The implication by your question is that you seem to feel an oversight or a rushed posting without nefarious intent is the same as one who purposely and willfully has the intent to deceive. You are either being purposely obtuse, or baiting me for sport, neither of which I’m interested in.

Well, you didn't quote the rest of my answer, which specifically said an innocent error would not be what I'm referring to...but hey if you are done that's fine. Of course you are under no obligation to answer anyone's questions here.
 
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No, that's not what I'm saying. We're both on the same page here as I find many of their watch descriptions laughable.

No, it's not right for a dealer to do that. And probably why I rarely (closer to almost never) visit their website.

Watches, just like any other commodity, needs a healthy dose of caveat emptor.

I think we are on the same page.

People will say "caveat emptor" and I certainly agree to a point. However I don't consider it a free pass for either gross negligence in listings, or downright deception.
 
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I think we are on the same page.

People will say "caveat emptor" and I certainly agree to a point. However I don't consider it a free pass for either gross negligence in listings, or downright deception.

If you had a nickel for every watch that came to you from a collector who bought from a dealer swearing said watch was "serviced"...
 
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If you had a nickel for every watch that came to you from a collector who bought from a dealer swearing said watch was "serviced"...

Indeed.
 
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So it wouldn't bother you if they sold watches that were misrepresented

"misrepresented" is using a broad brush Al. I believe you were recently accused of the same thing by Nick and I defended you on that. I don't see Bob endorsing misrepresentation in his reply.
 
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Please forgive my innocence, but does Hodinkee have a history of misrepresenting products up for sale?
 
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"misrepresented" is using a broad brush Al. I believe you were recently accused of the same thing by Nick and I defended you on that. I don't see Bob endorsing misrepresentation in his reply.

Well, this is the point I was trying to clarify. This seemed like an overly broad acceptance of behaviour from Hodinkee when it was posted:

"Personally, I don’t care what they do one way or another, but if they play even a small role in bringing watch appreciation to a larger audience, then I’m okay with them."

Do I really think Bob is "endorsing" it? No, of course not, and I said absolutely nothing to that effect to be clear.

Would he be indifferent to it? That I'm not sure of, and why I asked.
 
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Would he be indifferent to it? That I'm not sure of, and why I asked.

Well since Bob isn't exactly an unknown entity around here I would think most will give him the benefit of the doubt no? 😁
 
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Please forgive my innocence, but does Hodinkee have a history of misrepresenting products up for sale?

I don't follow them, but I do recall some questionable vintage watches being pointed out here in the past.
 
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I don't follow them, but I do recall some questionable vintage watches being pointed out here in the past.

Yes I recall the same thing. I remember a put together bracelet on a 100% original watch.