Hairspring disaster

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Yesterday it Rained. I started fiddling with one of the AS 1187 sizes balances. I have a roller removal tool, and a staking set. Not afraid to use them.

I also have a textbook by my Friend Henry B. Fried, who used to lead the tours to museums and watchmaking factories all over the world. I has read the chapter in the book a month ago. Should have reviewed it first.
I completely destroyed the hairspring. Got this strange idea I could use one of my micro-electronic tools used for holding printed circuit boards. Stretched the spring so tight, the stud came off. (later the collet came off as the whole thing snapped back into a knot.

No where does Henry show how to deal with a spring where one of the loops becomes too small. There is no way to get the tweezers in between the coils, without causing further damage. I did eventually get all the loops to not cross over each other, but I can not get it flat.

Back to the textbook.


Aha! there is something about choosing the correct tools.

I improvised a balance tack. Using a brass clock taper pin and a bench block.

Which is actually how I got the snarl mostly straightened. I have plenty more balances to destroy. This can be seen in the photographs. There are nearly enough scrap parts for 4 or 5 watches. (Technically one was complete with a bad balance. which I took apart to match parts.) I also have 3 or for watches of this caliber that only need cleaning.

Can not believe I spent all last 5 to 6 hours night playing with a single hairspring. Deciding I did not want to go out in the rain. Makes this the proverbial 'rainy day project.' I think I learned everything one can not do to a hairspring.

I also took this photograph. Probably not the best way to store balances for 20 to 30 years.

At least with an AS caliber I could get another balance complete cheap online. Balance complete seem to cost close to the price of a scrap watch. Hardest part is finding which are incabloc (wich for the most part has an over coil, and which are non incabloc.) the shape of the pivots may also be of concern.

If the labeling is correct, I may have at least two staffs, but would they work in an incabloc jewel mount? Most of the extra bridges are incabloc. On the other hand the 7 jewel movement I re-assembled to get the parts out of the way, is missing the cap jewel and I do not have a spare non incy balance bridge.

Curious, according to Henry's book. Hairspring maintenance was considered woman's work. Of course the ones that were hired were 18 to 24 years old.
 
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I’ve never seen an AS 1187 or 1194 that was anything but Incabloc, and never with an overcoil (Breguet) hairspring. So finding a donor should be a snap.
 
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I’ve never seen an AS 1187 or 1194 that was anything but Incabloc, and never with an overcoil (Breguet) hairspring. So finding a donor should be a snap.
The 11 1/2 ligne 1194 seem to be incabloc. Some of the old 10 1/2L AS 1187 with broken staffs have straigt jewels. I think a lot of this 'collection' dates from the 1940s and 1950s. Some of the movements do seem to date to the WWII era.

There also seem to be many re used parts between different AS calibers. The thread yesterday regarding movement identification and the Ranfft search. turned up more AS 1002 movements (unmarked) Some calibers are mirrored. With the set bridge countersunk on one side or the other. Parts that are not mirrored or can be flipped look to be interchangeable. Interesting that set levers seem to be the part most often lost. probably when the set lever screw releases the stem.

Bestfit on the other hand lists different staffs for the calibers inc vs non inc. Would have been nice 30 or so years ago when I started this Hobby to have all the online documentation. Once one knows what something is, there is a good chance one can find parts for it.
 
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I’d love to tinker with watchmaking (just for my personal knowledge) and I have done a little with pocket watches but I’m trying everything to get a smooth idle out of my snowblower. I took apart the carburetor and cleaned it, didn’t replace anything but I had to take it all apart. A snowblower carburetor is relatively simple but I still swore 3several times. Looking at your parts table for my own sanity I should probably give up my desire to build a watch, you must have a great deal of patience.
 
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I'm having balance spring woes too --- I got one on a holder but I'm too scared to do anything yet

Ec3dY8w.png

I was watching a couple of good videos on this one:
was the first one i was watching but there was another where he explained that the use of a pair of 7A tweezers helps a bunch since they are sharp and stay out of the way.

NNHK7MQ.png

Good luck to you as well.
 
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I'm having balance spring woes too --- I got one on a holder but I'm too scared to do anything yet

I was watching a couple of good videos on this one:
was the first one i was watching but there was another where he explained that the use of a pair of 7A tweezers helps a bunch since they are sharp and stay out of the way.

Good luck to you as well.
I don't know if my luck will continue, but I managed to save a Bulova by fixing the bent hairspring. I followed what I learned from various videos like the one posted above. I also have a similar holder on order.
 
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I'm having balance spring woes too --- I got one on a holder but I'm too scared to do anything yet

Ec3dY8w.png

I was watching a couple of good videos on this one:
was the first one i was watching but there was another where he explained that the use of a pair of 7A tweezers helps a bunch since they are sharp and stay out of the way.

NNHK7MQ.png

Good luck to you as well.

Making a balance tack is always a good exercise in lather skills, plus sawing with a jeweler's saw, and filing skills...this is mine that I made in school years ago:



For tweezers, I use #5's only - never found a use for 7A's personally, but everyone has their own preferences.

Cheers, Al
 
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Making a balance tack is always a good exercise in lather skills, plus sawing with a jeweler's saw, and filing skills...this is mine that I made in school years ago:



For tweezers, I use #5's only - never found a use for 7A's personally, but everyone has their own preferences.

Cheers, Al

I don't have a lathe (still starting out small) but once I get our workshop out of the planning stages, it's high on my list of larger items, like a Bulova Watch Master machine! So, cheap and cheesy for now but it seems to work well enough for now.

I have to get back to my jewelry repair course and sawing/filing is one of the things that they emphasize, so this will no doubt improve my watchmaking skills along the way.

I'm not stuck in any particular way of tweezers at this point being new. I just want something that works well. I'll buy a new full set since esslinger is having a nice anniversary sale.
 
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I don't have a lathe (still starting out small) but once I get our workshop out of the planning stages, it's high on my list of larger items, like a Bulova Watch Master machine! So, cheap and cheesy for now but it seems to work well enough for now.

I have to get back to my jewelry repair course and sawing/filing is one of the things that they emphasize, so this will no doubt improve my watchmaking skills along the way.

I'm not stuck in any particular way of tweezers at this point being new. I just want something that works well. I'll buy a new full set since esslinger is having a nice anniversary sale.

I use a pair of Bergeon bronze tweezers for generally assembly, and a good set of Dumont #5's for fine work, and a set of Horotec F pattern for hands - you don't need much more than that to be honest. Yes I have more tweezers, but those three get used every single day, and the others only rarely.
 
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I use a pair of Bergeon bronze tweezers for generally assembly, and a good set of Dumont #5's for fine work, and a set of Horotec F pattern for hands - you don't need much more than that to be honest. Yes I have more tweezers, but those three get used every single day, and the others only rarely.

I got the delrin tipped ones you recommended when we first spoke:
nrEXFGC.png
 
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I use a pair of Bergeon bronze tweezers for generally assembly, and a good set of Dumont #5's for fine work, and a set of Horotec F pattern for hands - you don't need much more than that to be honest. Yes I have more tweezers, but those three get used every single day, and the others only rarely.

Or did you mean the Bergeon 7026
bergeon-watch-hand-tweezers-7026photo2__31645.1659442494.jpg
 
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Totally relevant: hand-setting tweezers are the tool of choice for working with the loose ball bearings in Shirogorov folding knives.



Okay, sort of relevant.......
 
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Back to the textbook.
Figure 42 cracks me up. That's either an infant's finger or that's not a watch hairspring.
I naively tried correcting a bent mainspring using Mark Lovick's instructional videos a few months ago for the first time. It looked good enough to me to put it back together, but it was toast. Gave up and bought another balance which ended up having a messed up staff. I got another, but I've been too scared to try it and find something else wrong with it. It has kind of derailed me for several weeks now.
 
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Here's a film with Henry showing some balance spring repairs...annoying that they talk over each other, but easier to follow than reading it in a book...

 
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Here's a film with Henry showing some balance spring repairs...annoying that they talk over each other, but easier to follow than reading it in a book...

Wow Henry looks so young. Interesting to hear his voice again.
 
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I need more HS practice. It's a perennial problem. I remember the first one I ever did on a 1980's Seiko: had the spring off of the balance wheel, spent a whole day playing with, watching videos, tweaking concentricity, flattening it, tweaking the terminal curve. After hours and hours I got it just about spot on, feeling very proud. Picked it up with my number 5 tweezers to reinstall it on the balance and promptly bashed it into the side of my microscope stand and completely buggered it. I could have cried!
 
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Pip Pip
I need more HS practice. It's a perennial problem. I remember the first one I ever did on a 1980's Seiko: had the spring off of the balance wheel, spent a whole day playing with, watching videos, tweaking concentricity, flattening it, tweaking the terminal curve. After hours and hours I got it just about spot on, feeling very proud. Picked it up with my number 5 tweezers to reinstall it on the balance and promptly bashed it into the side of my microscope stand and completely buggered it. I could have cried!


I need more patience ... And practice. I knew I had a slip stone on the way. I knew my hand levers weren't sharp enough but I still tried to pop the roller off with them, and mashed the hairspring to the collet. Fun. Now it's bent on 2 directions. Lol. Good thing I have a replacement movement on the way with a good balance assembly. At least I have a practice piece now? Lol. Still, after I sharpened them, it popped right off. And only then did I remember that I had a roller remover tool but didn't know what it was until afterwards.

Learning the hard way. But I am setting up to take some virtual classes and consulting the Fried Bibles.
Edited:
 
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I need more patience ... And practice. I knew I had a slip stone on the way. I knew my hand levers weren't sharp enough but I still tried to pop the roller off with them, and mashed the hairspring to the collect. Fun. Now it's bent on 2 directions. Lol. Good thing I have a replacement movement on the way with a good balance assembly. At least I have a practice piece now? Lol. Still, after I sharpened them, it popped.right off. And the I remembered I had a roller remover tool but didn't know what it was until afterwards.

Learning the hard way. But I am setting up to take some virtual classes and consulting the Fried Bibles.
As I always tell me son (and myself!): Practice makes better. And as you say, the right tools don't hurt either!