Future of the Tokyo 2020 Limited Edition

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@Longbow I wonder, any chance you have developed (or are developing) a minor allergy to nickel? This appears to be a contact dermatitis, as opposed to abrasion.

In which case, perhaps the “sharp” edges of the caseback provide just enough additional contact through the hair layer to give a reaction not normally experienced with smoother casebacks? And/or perhaps, given the intricacy of this caseback, Omega used a stainless with incidentally higher nickel content?

Sorry you’ve experienced that either way.

If I remember your original thread correctly, you ultimately swapped clasps for better size adjustment and that (mostly?) remedied the problem? Or did you also put a sapphire on back 😲

I recently purchased one and so far I can see an imprint from the case back after wearing it. It is not painful or different than the imprint of a metal bracelet when worn and my wrist swells.
 
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Might be in the minority here but I really believe that as the 3861 goes more into circulation all of these special addition 1861's will go up in value. In 5-10 years I don't see any of these going down.
 
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did they both have @Longbow or are you instead referencing the indentation photo posted earlier alongside @Longbow

Two different people have noted this on forum, and as I've said, I've had people contact me to ask about swapping the case back due to this issue.
 
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due to this issue.

Sorry, I was only attempting to clarify if “this issue” seen with others (or who have contacted you) meant the “issue” of discomfort/imprinting (e.g., the second photo @STANDY posted), or instead the (to me) altogether different level of open wound shown by @Longbow.

Speaking with my wife (a dermatologist) and showing her the pictures at issue, her *initial* impressions:

(1) due to the pattern and nature of @Longbow ’s injury, she would be surprised if it were merely abrasion/laceration caused by even a sharp case back because (A) the pattern of injury is unexpected of mere abrasion/laceration, and (B) mere abrasion/laceration in this pattern would require not only the case back to be sharp and the bracelet tight, but also movement of the watch to cause a “sawing” effect (which movement is counterintuitive to the co-requirement of tightness of the watch)

(2) the appearance of the wound itself (though obviously limited by the quality of a single photo) appears to be more than mere abrasion/laceration, and instead possibly a contact dermatitis from something (A) first irritating the skin and (B) the incidental “sharpness” and tightness of the caseback then causing that irritated skin to be particularly prone to damage. She mentioned possibilities of nickel in the SS, a cleaner/soap/other material on the skin or caseback that got unusually held in close and consistent contact with the skin due to the caseback/tightness.

(3) wrt any of the above possibilities alone or in combination, she noted that such sensitivities can develop at any time, and may become more possible as skin ages and becomes more “papery” (a derm term that creeps me out).

That said, from @Longbow ’s original post it seems as though his clasp-swap and subsequent resizing helped to “cure” the issue - so hopefully we never find out/it doesn’t happen again.

But setting aside @Longbow ’s other-worldly type injury, as for the photo of imprints (which “imprints” I can only assume are reported with attendant discomfort):

My wife says, “I can show you hordes of people who’s socks leave imprints on their ankles so detailed you can make out the individual sock fibers; and it’s neither comfortable nor unexpected for anything encircling an extremity and having any relief, and will relate back to not only the caseback features being more prominent than others but also the individual’s current state of swelling, water retention, temperature, and of course wearing socks or bracelets that are too tight if they’re uncomfortable.”

In any event, it’s clear there is a universe of people with these casebacks who can’t fathom how they cause any discomfort, and a second universe of people who are experiencing discomfort.

Then there’s @Longbow who I hope still has his arm!
 
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In any event, it’s clear there is a universe of people with these casebacks who can’t fathom how they cause any discomfort, and a second universe of people who are experiencing discomfort.

Yes, this is evident. Not sure what else we really need...or why you are digging this up again.
 
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Yes, this is evident. Not sure what else we really need...or why you are digging this up again.

I think it’s a self-evidently interesting topic, especially on an only month-old thread regarding people interested in the future/valuation of these watches. After all, the “maiming” caseback allegations were among the first 4 responses to this only month-old thread.

When @Longbow posted his review two and a half years ago the Tokyo 2020s were ~brand new, so it opened the possibility that over time we’d see numbers of these open wounds surfacing on forums.

2.5 years on, and I gather that has not been the case.

All that into consideration: I only just came to this only month-old thread, and so does it really seem remarkable/unusual that that someone remarks?

Until someone says more, I can only conclude that after 2.5 years of these watches in the wild @Longbow ’s injury is unique, and so when discussing the value of these watches the automatic “maiming” assertions are the more unusual thing to still be “digging up” (yourself weighing in, only this past month).
 
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All that into consideration: I only just came to this only month-old thread, and so does it really seem remarkable/unusual that that someone remarks?

Until someone says more, I can only conclude that after 2.5 years of these watches in the wild @Longbow ’s injury is unique, and so when discussing the value of these watches the automatic “maiming” assertions are the more unusual thing to still be “digging up” (yourself weighing in, only this past month).

Yes, I weighted in because another member claimed it was all a lie. You liked his first post just recently saying that it does not happen if you just found this thread, even though there's clearly evidence it has happened.

I added my experiences as someone who has been asked by people if the case back can be changed - that's all.
 
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Well in my case, it leaves a small mark. But the same as in the case of the FOIS.

so at the end of the day it really depends on how tight you wear the watch. I don’t wear my watches too tight. So the small mark with the rising sund and FOIS never really bothered me
 
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You liked his first post just recently saying that it does not happen if you just found this thread,

I see.

Admit that, reading chronologically, I “liked” a post before I got to the later shitshow it devolved into and came to realize there was a broader history than I’d appreciated... 😵‍💫 ... and once I got to that shitshow, I even thought going back of “unliking” but then thought “why bother going back, what sort of curmudgeon would both pay attention and also hold it against me, much less publicly ...”

(Perhaps this is a like-type for @m’bob’s ontology?)

But I hope my comments since have made clear the limited extent to which I ever “liked” that comment that was replying to @STANDY: I think @Longbow ’s experience is as genuinely unfortunate as it appears unique; but/so that 2.5yrs later it is still being thrown around by people other than @Longbow (who I believe still owns and wears the watch) as a reason to devalue the Tokyo 2020s is a bit “crazy” - a descriptor I assumed my friend @STANDY has Japanese-tattooed somewhere visible even when in a suit
 
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I'm surprised the blue dial doesn't get more love.

Blue is unusual and generally well received ( judging by the Gemini IV.) It has the reverse Panda, a splash of red the beautiful (in my mind) applied indexes. It seems to me to have more longevity.

They are all nice. The green, while unusual, seems more the flavor of the moment, which has already faded. The rising sun has the white dial appeal of the mitsukoshi and snoopy 2, but is more monotone to me. (I also wonder how much the hodinkee and fratellowatches influenced the red and white popularity). Pandas are always appealing and a safe bet. But is the safe bet going to be outrun the others in the long run?


If I had the blue and in 10 years it was half the value of the panda (or others), i think I would still be happier because it is really attractive.
Am I the only one who didn’t get it why Omega released Apollo 11 35th Panda and Gemini IV blue dial look alike watches in this limited edition? These watches are beautiful but in my eyes they are only reedition of different very sought after watches. That’s why I like Rising Sun and very interesting green model from this limited edition set.
 
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I love my rising sun in combination with the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary bracelet.

Can highly recommend it. There are not many Speedys with a white dial, and none with a red bezel. For me a perfect combination.
Interesting you call it white dial. I have the Rising Sun in my possession as well and what I like on this model is its silver sparkling dial. Very very special and unique. And beautiful in my eyes.
 
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Interesting you call it white dial. I have the Rising Sun in my possession as well and what I like on this model is its silver sparkling dial. Very very special and unique. And beautiful in my eyes.
I was fascinated that they didn’t use that dial finish on the 50th anniversary and call it platinum moon dust dial.
 
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Am I the only one who didn’t get it why Omega released Apollo 11 35th Panda and Gemini IV blue dial look alike watches in this limited edition? These watches are beautiful but in my eyes they are only reedition of different very sought after watches.

No. Much maligned at the time for this reason.

If I were forced to offer Omega any defense, I'd guess it's that they were Japan-only boutique offerings in only 2020 pieces and 15 years later. Though, were I an Apollo 11 35th owner, at Tokyo release I'd have been irked (and some were).

But to be fair to Japan: wasn't the Apollo 11 35th Panda (2004, in 3500 pieces) a worse encroachment on the “Mitsukoshi” 3570.31 Panda (2003, only 300 pieces)?
 
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But I hope my comments since have made clear the limited extent to which I ever “liked” that comment that was replying to @STANDY: I think @Longbow ’s experience is as genuinely unfortunate as it appears unique; but/so that 2.5yrs later it is still being thrown around by people other than @Longbow (who I believe still owns and wears the watch) as a reason to devalue the Tokyo 2020s is a bit “crazy” - a descriptor I assumed my friend @STANDY has Japanese-tattooed somewhere visible even when in a suit

If one users experience is "unique" or not is not provable.

I'm not sure who the "people" are that are "throwing around" this issue saying it will devalue the watch...Standy made one comment about them always being available, and showed the photos that touched off the shit show. The shit show was essentially over...until today.
 
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Am I the only one who didn’t get it why Omega released Apollo 11 35th Panda and Gemini IV blue dial look alike watches in this limited edition? These watches are beautiful but in my eyes they are only reedition of different very sought after watches. That’s why I like Rising Sun and very interesting green model from this limited edition set.

You're definitely not the only one.

This is also an exercise of degrees of difference. In the end, all nice to my eye. But if forced to choose only one, there's the rub.

Based on this thread, it seems the Rising Sun will rise the most in value if value is based on popularity. If value is based on rarity, it might be the green dial.

Get one of each and you've got the bases covered.

Cheers.

Ps. Please no one excoriate me because I mentioned increased value. That's part of this thread.
 
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If one users experience is "unique" or not is not provable.

Nor is it provable that these watches don't cause leukemia, based merely on a lack of people saying that they do cause leukemia; but we can all be big boys and draw inferences of probability and risk-adjust accordingly.

So long as we're digging, then it's eventually worth mentioning that (1) your own comments on this thread could have been taken to conflate @Longbow's experience with that of the other person "on this forum who have had this happen to them," and likewise potentially conflating what happened to @Longbow with your anecdotal caseback-inquirerers, and (2) you twice didn't appear to want to clarify this potential confusion/conflation between @Longbow's unfortunate situation vs that of imprinting/discomfort.

The shit show was essentially over...until today.

I'd think it more than unfair to characterize my questions and additions here as adding to that particular shitshow; but at this point I think it's clear this exchange is for you now less about the matter at hand and instead something else entirely...

So back to my original question to the thread: is anyone actually seeing the Panda's trade at anything like these Chrono24 prices I earlier posted? Because at those prices I'm throwing in shipping 😵‍💫
 
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Based on this thread, it seems the Rising Sun will rise the most in value if value is based on popularity.

My instinct would be this as well, if based only on the relative rarity of the dial and bezel treatments.

However, what do you think of the fact that the red bezels are apparently still sitting on AD/OB shelves in Japan, and purportedly able to be purchased at MSRP (if you can manage to get them out of Japan)?

I suppose in the long-long run it's often the case that the then-overlooked model years later becomes the most desirable for inverse reasons. Though, if carrying that reasoning through here, the green bezel has the brightest long-long term future. If only they hadn't given it all that damn rose gold furnishing... 😲
 
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Nor is it provable that these watches don't cause leukemia, based merely on a lack of people saying that they do cause leukemia; but we can all be big boys and draw inferences of probability and risk-adjust accordingly.

Exactly, which makes this whole line of questioning of yours rather pointless.

So long as we're digging, then it's eventually worth mentioning that (1) your own comments on this thread could have been taken to conflate @Longbow's experience with that of the other person "on this forum who have had this happen to them," and likewise potentially conflating what happened to @Longbow with your anecdotal caseback-inquirerers, and (2) you twice didn't appear to want to clarify this potential confusion/conflation between @Longbow's unfortunate situation vs that of imprinting/discomfort.

Sorry if I don't question those who contact me asking about a case back exchange about their detailed medical history, and what their exact severity of symptoms are. I didn't realize I would be required to provide such detailed information to satisfy your demands at the time.

I'd think it more than unfair to characterize my questions and additions here as adding to that particular shitshow; but at this point I think it's clear this exchange is for you now less about the matter at hand and instead something else entirely...

In your mind certainly...
 
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I nominate this thread as the thread least likely to be contentious and apparently became contentious.

I am allowed to nominate this as I am normally in the middle of the contention, in this case I fall to see why this is being debated.


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