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FinalTuna
·First things first, I'm a new member to the site, though I've been browsing a while. Greetings to all of you.
A lot of these newer, larger watches don't appeal to me, but I have been collecting vintage Longines for a while and wanted to dip my toes in Omega as well. Recently I found a really cool https://www.omegawatches.com/watch-omega-seamaster-120-m-chronometer-25018100, (Omega 2501.81.00). This one really jumped out at me because it met a few requirements.
1. I really wanted to get a blue dial into my collection.
2. I wanted it to be 36-38mm in size.
3. I wanted to get a watch with a reliable movement.
4. I wanted to stay under $1500, expecting an additional duty for import, and another $700 or so for a full service, keeping it under $2500 USD for a served, reliable, vintage Omega, which I felt was a reasonable expectation.
5. I really, really do not like the aqua terra hands and dials. I'm not saying they are bad, it's just not the look I like.
6. It had a lot of 'modern' omega looks in the bracelet, the case lugs, etc. I could try this style for less commitment than with a modern watch from Omega. (They should bring this watch back imho.)
So I get the watch in, using Crono24 because this is JDM. Of course, the first thing I did was say, 'wow this thing is gross and smells weird' so I took it to my 'watchmaker' who is really just a buddy of mine with a basement, but he is more than capable of checking it out, time graphing it, and giving the bracelet an ultrasonic bath. In other words, 'hey man could you check this out for me before I send it off for a $700 service?'
This is where it gets interesting. So when he took the caseback off to check the serial numbers, what he found was that the watch looked like an 2501.81.00, but did not have a 1120 movement. The rotor was clearly engraved 1109. My first response was, look, maybe that isn't a big deal. Maybe Omega changed the movement later on, etc. But upon looking further, the case serial and movement serial matched as expected, but the case back indicated something different. It said it was a 168.1501. I understand that the caseback number and the reference for the customer are not the same thing. But something didn't smell right to me. Sure enough, my serial number, movement, case, and caseback all are for a reference https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/watch-omega-seamaster-120-st-168-1501, (ST 168.1501).
At this point, I start googling for all the dial color varieties and quickly realize that I have watch with a dial and hands swapped. That dial and that reference don't overlap at all, and I also have gotten a 1109, which is inferior in many ways to the 1120. So I don't have the watch I've ordered, and worse yet, it's got a dial from a completely different watch.
This is a problem for me because...
1. If I send this to be serviced, there is a 50/50 chance Omega is going to notice and want to swap that dial at a cost of 300-500 USD easily.
2. Now, if I decide I really like this and want to sell/trade this for a newer Seamaster or something, I have to disclose this to any buyer.
3. I think after reading about which movement I wanted, carefully ordering, and selecting a watch, I should at least get what I intended to order. I understand these are only around $1,200 USD, and that doesn't sound like much money, but it's not pocket change either.
Noting all of this, and writing it down, I reach out to Crono24. I tell them the issue, and that I need some kind of resolution. Either I need to send it back (a pain) or get a quote and reimbursed the cost of correcting the dial. In response, they are telling that I need to have an AD or certified watch maker 'verify' that it is a franken watch or they can't do anything about it.
So, naturally I phone up the closest Omega Dealer (who is an hour+ away, and the certified makers nearby are even further) and ask them about it. I am immediately told that even if I come into the store, it is against their policy to authenticate and it will need to be mailed off elsewhere for that, and it will cost me. But, they point out that I am clearly holding a watch that doesn't match the description at all, so even if the dial is authentic, it's not the same watch I thought I was buying.
She had a good point and so I've written back to Crono24 with the same - even if it's not easy to authenticate, it's clearly not what was advertised, so why is that even necessary? I have written back to them and are awaiting their response. If they can't fix this I don't know why they claim to offer any kind of 'escrow/14 day return policy' at all.
We'll see how this turns out, bust most likely I will simply end up loosing. I just want to put this out here as a warning, even if you have been doing this for a long time, Franken watches like this are extremely challenging to spot, and you can't do this from photos unless the case back has been opened. Stay careful out there, because this can easily become a $400 loss to you when service time comes, or you go to sell. Not to mention getting a lesser product.
Update, it gets even better. This is their 'guarantee'. It's not as if my friend is an imbecile, he services and works on Unitas movements all the time. You mean to tell me he can't check the caseback for fraud unless he suspects fraud first and asks? Incredible.
Expiry of Guarantee
The guarantee expires if the buyer himself or a third party opens the watch or removes parts of the watch without prior consent of Chrono24 in text form (e.g. e-mail).
A lot of these newer, larger watches don't appeal to me, but I have been collecting vintage Longines for a while and wanted to dip my toes in Omega as well. Recently I found a really cool https://www.omegawatches.com/watch-omega-seamaster-120-m-chronometer-25018100, (Omega 2501.81.00). This one really jumped out at me because it met a few requirements.
1. I really wanted to get a blue dial into my collection.
2. I wanted it to be 36-38mm in size.
3. I wanted to get a watch with a reliable movement.
4. I wanted to stay under $1500, expecting an additional duty for import, and another $700 or so for a full service, keeping it under $2500 USD for a served, reliable, vintage Omega, which I felt was a reasonable expectation.
5. I really, really do not like the aqua terra hands and dials. I'm not saying they are bad, it's just not the look I like.
6. It had a lot of 'modern' omega looks in the bracelet, the case lugs, etc. I could try this style for less commitment than with a modern watch from Omega. (They should bring this watch back imho.)
So I get the watch in, using Crono24 because this is JDM. Of course, the first thing I did was say, 'wow this thing is gross and smells weird' so I took it to my 'watchmaker' who is really just a buddy of mine with a basement, but he is more than capable of checking it out, time graphing it, and giving the bracelet an ultrasonic bath. In other words, 'hey man could you check this out for me before I send it off for a $700 service?'
This is where it gets interesting. So when he took the caseback off to check the serial numbers, what he found was that the watch looked like an 2501.81.00, but did not have a 1120 movement. The rotor was clearly engraved 1109. My first response was, look, maybe that isn't a big deal. Maybe Omega changed the movement later on, etc. But upon looking further, the case serial and movement serial matched as expected, but the case back indicated something different. It said it was a 168.1501. I understand that the caseback number and the reference for the customer are not the same thing. But something didn't smell right to me. Sure enough, my serial number, movement, case, and caseback all are for a reference https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/watch-omega-seamaster-120-st-168-1501, (ST 168.1501).
At this point, I start googling for all the dial color varieties and quickly realize that I have watch with a dial and hands swapped. That dial and that reference don't overlap at all, and I also have gotten a 1109, which is inferior in many ways to the 1120. So I don't have the watch I've ordered, and worse yet, it's got a dial from a completely different watch.
This is a problem for me because...
1. If I send this to be serviced, there is a 50/50 chance Omega is going to notice and want to swap that dial at a cost of 300-500 USD easily.
2. Now, if I decide I really like this and want to sell/trade this for a newer Seamaster or something, I have to disclose this to any buyer.
3. I think after reading about which movement I wanted, carefully ordering, and selecting a watch, I should at least get what I intended to order. I understand these are only around $1,200 USD, and that doesn't sound like much money, but it's not pocket change either.
Noting all of this, and writing it down, I reach out to Crono24. I tell them the issue, and that I need some kind of resolution. Either I need to send it back (a pain) or get a quote and reimbursed the cost of correcting the dial. In response, they are telling that I need to have an AD or certified watch maker 'verify' that it is a franken watch or they can't do anything about it.
So, naturally I phone up the closest Omega Dealer (who is an hour+ away, and the certified makers nearby are even further) and ask them about it. I am immediately told that even if I come into the store, it is against their policy to authenticate and it will need to be mailed off elsewhere for that, and it will cost me. But, they point out that I am clearly holding a watch that doesn't match the description at all, so even if the dial is authentic, it's not the same watch I thought I was buying.
She had a good point and so I've written back to Crono24 with the same - even if it's not easy to authenticate, it's clearly not what was advertised, so why is that even necessary? I have written back to them and are awaiting their response. If they can't fix this I don't know why they claim to offer any kind of 'escrow/14 day return policy' at all.
We'll see how this turns out, bust most likely I will simply end up loosing. I just want to put this out here as a warning, even if you have been doing this for a long time, Franken watches like this are extremely challenging to spot, and you can't do this from photos unless the case back has been opened. Stay careful out there, because this can easily become a $400 loss to you when service time comes, or you go to sell. Not to mention getting a lesser product.
Update, it gets even better. This is their 'guarantee'. It's not as if my friend is an imbecile, he services and works on Unitas movements all the time. You mean to tell me he can't check the caseback for fraud unless he suspects fraud first and asks? Incredible.
Expiry of Guarantee
The guarantee expires if the buyer himself or a third party opens the watch or removes parts of the watch without prior consent of Chrono24 in text form (e.g. e-mail).
Edited:
