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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberHere's the bracelet that I'm questioning...was this ever sold on the Deep Blue?
Certainly not with those end-pieces! 😁
And I am skeptical that they were ever original to the model.
Favre Leuba Deep Blue Mark 1 questions
Certainly not with those end-pieces! 😁
And I am skeptical that they were ever original to the model.
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alane24
·I have seen a handful of them with this style of bracelet, hence my question. They are identical to the bracelet found on the GP Deep Diver (photo below)...which also uses the same case as the Deep Blue. Coincidence? Aftermarket addition? Or, perhaps an original bracelet found on the latter iteration of the Deep Blues?
Here's the GP...same case, same bracelet.
Here's the GP...same case, same bracelet.
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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberThey are identical to the bracelet found on the GP Deep Diver (photo below)...which also uses the same case as the Deep Blue. Coincidence?
I don't consider those GP bracelets to be relevant. And in fact, I am skeptical that they were ever issued with the Deep Diver models. Interestingly, though, the bracelet on this ref. 7897 appears quite similar to the original Deep Blue bracelet...
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alane24
·And in fact, I am skeptical that they were ever issued with the Deep Diver models.
Why though?
I'm not trying to argue with you because I have no proof other than photos these watches that show the same bracelet from multiple different people. But, I'm skeptical that these all happen to be later replacements. Unless, the watches that have them were bought on a strap and the owner went to FL later and added a bracelet.
I don't know the exact circulation, but there are a handful of examples (members of OF, actually) of the Deep Blue with this textured bracelet as well as a couple (by my count) GP Deep Divers that have sold in the last few years (Stetz, S. Song, Hashtag) with the same bracelet.
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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberWhy though?
I'm not trying to argue with you because I have no proof other than photos these watches that show the same bracelet from multiple different people
First, I am skeptical precisely because the evidence that you have thus far produced to support your hypothesis is so weak.
The first one below, from Song, is a standard BOR bracelet that doesn't even appear to fit very well. The second and third, from the Stetz example, and which you posted previously, is a style that is dissonant with a tool watch such as these, and also appear to be a poor fit.
Of course some dealers prefer to put bracelets, even if unoriginal, on such watches, which is yet another cause for skepticism.
You have produced no evidence from either GP or F-L material that such bracelets were ever employed, and your anecdotal evidence does not, in my view, come close to being compelling.
I'll keep an open mind, but would need to see much more to be convinced.
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alane24
·Human error mentioning S. Song. I hope you can see past that. Here's another example with the same bracelet. So you're telling me, that w/o any evidence of your own that you have founded skepticism? How is that argument any stronger?
I'm at least providing numerous examples to support the possibility. You have shown nothing of the contrary. I have no horse in this game, I no longer own my Deep Blue.
Well...We're talking about watches from the early 60's from brands that weren't known for their robust marketing. Just because it doesn't exist in advertising materials does not discount the possibility of truth.
Again, I invite you to present a stronger argument against...something more than it being dissonant with a tool watch of the era. It's no more dissonant than the bracelet that came on the Mark 1 Deep Blue...that itself is a fairly fancy bracelet for such a watch.
Update:
Here's a spread from issue #49 (1968) of Europa Star showing this exact bracelet on the GP.
I'm at least providing numerous examples to support the possibility. You have shown nothing of the contrary. I have no horse in this game, I no longer own my Deep Blue.
You have produced no evidence from either GP or F-L material that such bracelets were ever employed, and your anecdotal evidence does not, in my view, come close to being compelling.
Well...We're talking about watches from the early 60's from brands that weren't known for their robust marketing. Just because it doesn't exist in advertising materials does not discount the possibility of truth.
Again, I invite you to present a stronger argument against...something more than it being dissonant with a tool watch of the era. It's no more dissonant than the bracelet that came on the Mark 1 Deep Blue...that itself is a fairly fancy bracelet for such a watch.
Update:
Here's a spread from issue #49 (1968) of Europa Star showing this exact bracelet on the GP.
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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberHere's another example with the same bracelet. So you're telling me, that w/o any evidence of your own that you have founded skepticism? How is that argument any stronger?
I don't think that you understand how this works. The onus is on you to provide compelling evidence that a particular bracelet was likely sold with the watches in question, not on skeptics to "prove" otherwise.
Thus far, you have produced nothing of the sort. What you have produced is:
– zero related promotional material to support your hypothesis, and in contrast with the models being shown in such material with other types of bracelets and bands
– a tiny number of examples shown with a particular style of bracelet, including (most recently) one testimonial of originality from a dealer
I have produced promotional material, and could show more, that are inconsistent with your hypothesis. I have also pointed out dissonances that should be fairly obvious. Bracelets with patterns more associated with dress watches sold on tool watches designed to be worn underwater? Does that make sense to you?
Etc.
EDIT: the catalogue that you just posted is much more compelling than anything else that you have produced. My only hesitation is that it is not from a GP catalogue. Nevertheless, it puts your hypothesis on much more solid ground.
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alane24
·I don't think that you understand how this works. The onus is on you to provide compelling evidence that a particular bracelet was likely sold with the watches in question, not on skeptics to "prove" otherwise.
Thus far, you have produced nothing of the sort. What you have produced is:
– zero related promotional material to support your hypothesis, and in contrast with the models being shown in such material with other types of bracelets and bands
– a tiny number of examples shown with a particular style of bracelet, including (most recently) one testimonial of originality from a dealer
I have produced promotional material, and could show more, that are inconsistent with your hypothesis. I have also pointed out dissonances that should be fairly obvious. Bracelets with patterns more associated with dress watches sold on tool watches designed to be worn underwater? Does that make sense to you?
Etc.
Your arrogance is palpable. See above. I'll re-post below. Europa Star issue 49 from 1968. Is this convincing enough for you? Don't let your arrogance get in the way of your humility.
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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberYou understand that this thread was about Favre-Leuba watches. So while you appear to have have been correct that GP supplied that style on the bracelet on some of their Deep Diver models (congratulations!), it doesn't inform any related questions about the F-L bracelets in question.
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alane24
·it doesn't inform any related questions about the F-L bracelets in question.
Obviously...and I'm not going to change your position, which I find bizarre—because you haven't come up with anything to suggest otherwise.
I'm bringing GP into the mix because of the fact that the Deep Diver uses the same case and bezel as the Deep Blue (both have the word "Deep" in their name too!) and I think that provides some rationality that the two could have used the same bracelet. And while we may never find manufacturer proof from FL (I'm in talks with Favre-Leuba) I think we have enough evidence to support reasonable doubt that Favre-Leuba probably shipped later Deep Blues with a different style of bracelet than the earlier Mark 1's.
I also have counted 8 examples of the Deep Blue with the same style of bracelet.
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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberI think we have enough evidence to support reasonable doubt that Favre-Leuba probably shipped later Deep Blues with a different style of bracelet than the earlier Mark 1's.
Perhaps they did.
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Tawfique
·I am fascinated by the discussion on this thread. I stumbled upon it by chance while trying to find more information about my Deep Blue 59603. I have owned it since new in 1964 - 60 years. It still works and keeps time. Never been serviced.
It has a screw down chunky winder. Having spent plenty of time using it in the sea, it never allowed any ingress of water.
It never had a metal strap, but a black rubber strap with a metal buckle. The rubber strap had a Fabre Leuba logo. Never been able to find a replacement.
Serial number 2244.
It has a screw down chunky winder. Having spent plenty of time using it in the sea, it never allowed any ingress of water.
It never had a metal strap, but a black rubber strap with a metal buckle. The rubber strap had a Fabre Leuba logo. Never been able to find a replacement.
Serial number 2244.
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