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Favre Leuba Deep Blue Mark 1 questions
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tmw57
·A few dimensions:
I think this is the original crown. Please note that it may appear off center while in the jaws of the micrometer, and this is due to the camera/view angle. I corrected for anything off center and gave an average number based on at least 5 readings for each dimension. Still, all dimensions must be considered approximations. Probably accurate to within plus or minus .05-.1 mm
1. crown diameter 6.74mm
2. crown width 3.16mm
3. crown to bezel gap .2-.3mm. This is an important dimension as these watches have crowns that are very tightly fitted and must have enough clearance off of the midcase to clear the bezel teeth. As you can see, this is a very tight little gap. a .3mm business card can be pushed into the gap with some pressure required due to friction.
4. The crown bevel is what gives it enough clearance off the midcase. Not easy to see in my pic, but the bevel allows the crown tines to have about a .7mm clearance so they don't interfere with the bezel teeth.
5. Crown has 24 tines
5. Geiger readings on my two radium watches were:
1. hands relumed =.35
2. hands with radium intact =.92
View attachment 1475289
I think this is the original crown. Please note that it may appear off center while in the jaws of the micrometer, and this is due to the camera/view angle. I corrected for anything off center and gave an average number based on at least 5 readings for each dimension. Still, all dimensions must be considered approximations. Probably accurate to within plus or minus .05-.1 mm
1. crown diameter 6.74mm
2. crown width 3.16mm
3. crown to bezel gap .2-.3mm. This is an important dimension as these watches have crowns that are very tightly fitted and must have enough clearance off of the midcase to clear the bezel teeth. As you can see, this is a very tight little gap. a .3mm business card can be pushed into the gap with some pressure required due to friction.
4. The crown bevel is what gives it enough clearance off the midcase. Not easy to see in my pic, but the bevel allows the crown tines to have about a .7mm clearance so they don't interfere with the bezel teeth.
5. Crown has 24 tines
5. Geiger readings on my two radium watches were:
1. hands relumed =.35
2. hands with radium intact =.92
Edited:
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Zuke
·With all of the Radium burn on my dial I should really have this watch tested on the Geiger
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tmw57
·Anyone willing to venture a guess as to which crown was originally on serial #1930? This was the watch that was pictured in the first post on this thread. It has an incorrect, signed, non-screw crown...
Perhaps it came with threaded crown which broke, and watchmaker found what he had in his parts box?
Perhaps it came with threaded crown which broke, and watchmaker found what he had in his parts box?
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Adri
·A few dimensions:
I think this is the original crown. Please note that it may appear off center while in the jaws of the micrometer, and this is due to the camera/view angle. I corrected for anything off center and gave an average number based on at least 5 readings for each dimension. Still, all dimensions must be considered approximations. Probably accurate to within plus or minus .05-.1 mm
1. crown diameter 6.74mm
2. crown width 3.16mm
3. crown to bezel gap .2-.3mm. This is an important dimension as these watches have crowns that are very tightly fitted and must have enough clearance off of the midcase to clear the bezel teeth. As you can see, this is a very tight little gap. a .3mm business card can be pushed into the gap with some pressure required due to friction.
4. The crown bevel is what gives it enough clearance off the midcase. Not easy to see in my pic, but the bevel allows the crown tines to have about a .7mm clearance so they don't interfere with the bezel teeth.
5. Crown has 24 tines
5. Geiger readings on my two radium watches were:
1. hands relumed =.35
2. hands with radium intact =.92
View attachment 1475289
Anyone willing to venture a guess as to which crown was originally on serial #1930? This was the watch that was pictured in the first post on this thread. It has an incorrect, signed, non-screw crown...
Perhaps it came with threaded crown which broke, and watchmaker found what he had in his parts box?
It should have a screw down signed FL crown.
The crown and tube pictured is from a Favre Leuba Bivouac
Best
A
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tmw57
·Hi Adri,
Are you saying this because it has a higher serial number, #1930? Please let me know how you determined this.
Also, I was told by another forum member (thanks bristnj!) that there are two different types of crystals used:
"There is two styles of crystals depending on the watch. One that is traditional, held down by tension ring and a generic will work. The more difficult has a flange that holds the bezel in place when pressed into the watch. That is style mine had, and likely you're as well."
His watch had a plastic insert.
What do you make of this?
Cheers
Are you saying this because it has a higher serial number, #1930? Please let me know how you determined this.
Also, I was told by another forum member (thanks bristnj!) that there are two different types of crystals used:
"There is two styles of crystals depending on the watch. One that is traditional, held down by tension ring and a generic will work. The more difficult has a flange that holds the bezel in place when pressed into the watch. That is style mine had, and likely you're as well."
His watch had a plastic insert.
What do you make of this?
Cheers
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Adri
·Hi Adri,
Are you saying this because it has a higher serial number, #1930? Please let me know how you determined this.
Also, I was told by another forum member (thanks bristnj!) that there are two different types of crystals used:
"There is two styles of crystals depending on the watch. One that is traditional, held down by tension ring and a generic will work. The more difficult has a flange that holds the bezel in place when pressed into the watch. That is style mine had, and likely you're as well."
His watch had a plastic insert.
What do you make of this?
Cheers
Yes due to the high number and i think if it had a normal non screw crown why replace the tube as well.
Yes, it depends on the case.
if metal bezel = non step crystal
If plastic bezel = step crystal to hold/fix the bezel
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tmw57
·Thanks, makes sense.
And also, they chose a signed crown as a replacement most probably because the crown they were replacing was signed. Which gives more support to your statement that this watch started it's life with a signed, screw-down crown. If it started it's life with an unsigned crown, it would have been so much easier to find an unsigned crown with the right amount of bevel to clear the bezel teeth.
Does anyone have pics or dimensions of a signed screw down crown for these?
And also, they chose a signed crown as a replacement most probably because the crown they were replacing was signed. Which gives more support to your statement that this watch started it's life with a signed, screw-down crown. If it started it's life with an unsigned crown, it would have been so much easier to find an unsigned crown with the right amount of bevel to clear the bezel teeth.
Does anyone have pics or dimensions of a signed screw down crown for these?
Edited:
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tmw57
·Does anyone have dimensions of the screw-down crown?
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alane24
·This is a great thread. Very informative. Is there information on who produced the case for this watch? It's identical to that of the Girard Perregaux Deep Diver and from what I can tell since I don't own one, the JLC ref. 857 Deep Sea alarm.
It even shares some similarities with the Omega Seamaster 2913 (produced by HF). And even the Certina DS ph200m ref 5801-117, although that one has drilled lugs. Note: no case maker mark shows up on the Certina, the GP, or the JLC, and of course not the Deep Blue. So who is it?
Blomman Watch Report seems to think it's an EPSA produced case. Going as far as to say:
"Just to point out, the GP 8867 case made by EPSA is not a Super Compressor case. EPSA made other cases as well, but a common misunderstand seems to be that an EPSA case is the same as a Super Compressor case…"
I can't find this EPSA case he is speaking to, and none of the 3 aforementioned watches have maker's marks on their case-backs. Which I would expect from EPSA.
Then if you look at the case of an Omega 2913 (HF produced) you see the similarities, although there are differences in the lugs. Maybe a connection here?
However, check out the similarities between the Deep Blue and and Ed White Speedmaster. Not identical, but close. Interesting. If anyone has more info I'd love to know.
It even shares some similarities with the Omega Seamaster 2913 (produced by HF). And even the Certina DS ph200m ref 5801-117, although that one has drilled lugs. Note: no case maker mark shows up on the Certina, the GP, or the JLC, and of course not the Deep Blue. So who is it?
Blomman Watch Report seems to think it's an EPSA produced case. Going as far as to say:
"Just to point out, the GP 8867 case made by EPSA is not a Super Compressor case. EPSA made other cases as well, but a common misunderstand seems to be that an EPSA case is the same as a Super Compressor case…"
I can't find this EPSA case he is speaking to, and none of the 3 aforementioned watches have maker's marks on their case-backs. Which I would expect from EPSA.
Then if you look at the case of an Omega 2913 (HF produced) you see the similarities, although there are differences in the lugs. Maybe a connection here?
However, check out the similarities between the Deep Blue and and Ed White Speedmaster. Not identical, but close. Interesting. If anyone has more info I'd love to know.
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alane24
·...continued. Look at some other watches that share this case (I'm sure I'm missing others)
In speaking with Adri here I mentioned that the Certina DS looks like it has a similar (same?) case, but as an owner of both he assured me that wasn't the case. The Certina uses a Huguenin Frères case. It's still damn close, and makes me wonder who produced the case for the other watches?
^ that'd be one hell of a collection...
In speaking with Adri here I mentioned that the Certina DS looks like it has a similar (same?) case, but as an owner of both he assured me that wasn't the case. The Certina uses a Huguenin Frères case. It's still damn close, and makes me wonder who produced the case for the other watches?
^ that'd be one hell of a collection...
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Zuke
·Thank you, this is very interesting - I wish I could add some case knowledge here but I don't have any to offer.
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tmw57
·I'm resurrecting this thread as I have some new info regarding crowns used on these models. As previously discussed, the earliest versions had a non-signed, non-screw down crown. Then the later, Mk.II versions of this watch had a signed, screw-down crown.
I started the thread as I had questions about my Mk.II (bakelite bezel) that has a signed, non-screw down crown. I initially thought that this was a post-factory modification as I had never seen this configuration.
However, I just found pics of another with the same exact crown and unusual crown-tube plate. Making me think that mine is more of a factory transitional model..
Your thoughts?
My watch:
Same crown and crown-tube-plate configuration found on this one...
I started the thread as I had questions about my Mk.II (bakelite bezel) that has a signed, non-screw down crown. I initially thought that this was a post-factory modification as I had never seen this configuration.
However, I just found pics of another with the same exact crown and unusual crown-tube plate. Making me think that mine is more of a factory transitional model..
Your thoughts?
My watch:
Same crown and crown-tube-plate configuration found on this one...
Edited:
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alane24
·I think one of two things are possible. A) they came this way B) they were altered by a watchmaker for some reason
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tmw57
·I'm leaning towards A. I think the probability of B is low because:
1. It looks like a very specific modification. Same case-tube-with-plate and same signed crown on both watches. If it is a post-factory mod that was done by the same watchmaker, what is the probability that he was able to get his hands on both my watch and the other one in the picture?
2. If each watch above was modded by a different watchmaker, what is the probability that they would each have on hand the same case-tube-with-plate and same signed crown? And both be doing the same mod?
Other theories welcome!
1. It looks like a very specific modification. Same case-tube-with-plate and same signed crown on both watches. If it is a post-factory mod that was done by the same watchmaker, what is the probability that he was able to get his hands on both my watch and the other one in the picture?
2. If each watch above was modded by a different watchmaker, what is the probability that they would each have on hand the same case-tube-with-plate and same signed crown? And both be doing the same mod?
Other theories welcome!
Edited:
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loniscup
·Great thread mate!! Helped a lot especially with the serial and the different crown configurations. I recently got a Mark II with a screw down crown, count down bezel and serial B 494.
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tmw57
·Really glad this helped you. I've since found two other examples of this version, both with the same signed non-screw down crown. So I think we can now say that this is a factory variant. I'll dig up the other two and post pics later.
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tmw57
·Two more examples with that same crown. Counting mine, this makes four. Is there anyone who disagrees with my assertion that these were done at the factory?
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alane24
·It's widely documented through Favre-Leuba advertising that the mark 1 came with this 5-row bracelet. However, I have seen a number of examples...usually mark 2 (Bakelite bezel, straight Favre-Leuba writing, tritium dial and square indices) watches come with a neat textured beads of rice style bracelet (last photo).
Can anyone confirm that these were actually shipped on the watch and not added later?
Factory bracelet:
Factory bracelet on my former watch:
Here's the bracelet that I'm questioning...was this ever sold on the Deep Blue? Any advertising or documentation showing this? I'm not aware of any other Favre-Leuba watches that used this particular bracelet.
Can anyone confirm that these were actually shipped on the watch and not added later?
Factory bracelet:
Factory bracelet on my former watch:
Here's the bracelet that I'm questioning...was this ever sold on the Deep Blue? Any advertising or documentation showing this? I'm not aware of any other Favre-Leuba watches that used this particular bracelet.
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