Extract of the Archives

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I was asking what evidence you had for stating that the only times they refuse an extract is when the case number doesn't match, or when the product is a fake. You have not provided any answers for that, so I'll assume you have no evidence.



How do you know this dial was replaced in service? Since the movement doesn't have a serial number on these, it's possible that it's more than just the dial that is not original to this watch. Let's say the watch leaked at some point, and the original movement was rusted completely. Someone finds a movement with dial and hands on eBay, and slaps it into this case.



No, it's not the correct model. It is the same case number, but a different model of watch.

There is a watch that looks like what the OP has, so the TT case, white dial with gold accents, and brown leather strap on a deployant buckle. That is watch ref. 36102002. The serial number that the OP states is on the case brings up ref. 37111060.



On what basis do you not trust this? This is what Omega service centers all over the world, and watchmakers like me with accounts use to order actual parts to fix actual watches every day. This isn't some half complete database used for collector purposes, but what Omega themselves use to determine what are correct parts on a watch. Omega being able to service watches correctly with the right parts relies on the Extranet...it is the gold standard when it comes to looking up the details of a watch.

All I can say is that if the extract process deems this watch legit, the only conclusion is that the extracts are not worth the paper they are printed on. If models can be approved as correct with different dials on them, just because they share the same case, then no one should ever pay good money for a real Mitsukoshi Speedmaster, Japan racing, or any other valuable variant out there that has a different dial.
 
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New? Not sure how new this is - from what I recall Omega has been offering extracts for watches made before 2000 for some time now (before the latest changes to the process). PIC's are not new - watches with them have been made since at least the early 90's, if not before.



So are you saying that the extracts that list the special hand are fake extracts? Because clearly they list more than what you say they do...



I have an extract I ordered this year that confirms the specific dial variant on the watch (this one says gilt dial with silvered counters, to be specific) as well as the two tone bracelet, and the two tone case.

I'm well aware of the disclaimer, as I have ordered two extracts so far this year, and I expect to order many more.

Again if I sent Omega photos of say a Japan racing model with the racing dial that is a model 35704000, or a Misukoshi ref 35703100 (or any one of the 30 or so Speedmasters that use this same case, but have a different dial than a regular 3575000), and the serial number was for a regular 35705000, I would not expect them to issue an extract for it. Otherwise, why would they even ask for photos?

If they did they did issue one, I would hope they would at least list the correct dial variant on the extract, but in the past when there has been a discrepancy, they have cancelled the extract. The only difference is now, you don't get your money back apparently.
I
I was asking what evidence you had for stating that the only times they refuse an extract is when the case number doesn't match, or when the product is a fake. You have not provided any answers for that, so I'll assume you have no evidence.



How do you know this dial was replaced in service? Since the movement doesn't have a serial number on these, it's possible that it's more than just the dial that is not original to this watch. Let's say the watch leaked at some point, and the original movement was rusted completely. Someone finds a movement with dial and hands on eBay, and slaps it into this case.



No, it's not the correct model. It is the same case number, but a different model of watch.

There is a watch that looks like what the OP has, so the TT case, white dial with gold accents, and brown leather strap on a deployant buckle. That is watch ref. 36102002. The serial number that the OP states is on the case brings up ref. 37111060.



On what basis do you not trust this? This is what Omega service centers all over the world, and watchmakers like me with accounts use to order actual parts to fix actual watches every day. This isn't some half complete database used for collector purposes, but what Omega themselves use to determine what are correct parts on a watch. Omega being able to service watches correctly with the right parts relies on the Extranet...it is the gold standard when it comes to looking up the details of a watch.

All I can say is that if the extract process deems this watch legit, the only conclusion is that the extracts are not worth the paper they are printed on. If models can be approved as correct with different dials on them, just because they share the same case, then no one should ever pay good money for a real Mitsukoshi Speedmaster, Japan racing, or any other valuable variant out there that has a different dial.[/QUOTE
New? Not sure how new this is - from what I recall Omega has been offering extracts for watches made before 2000 for some time now (before the latest changes to the process). PIC's are not new - watches with them have been made since at least the early 90's, if not before.



So are you saying that the extracts that list the special hand are fake extracts? Because clearly they list more than what you say they do...



I have an extract I ordered this year that confirms the specific dial variant on the watch (this one says gilt dial with silvered counters, to be specific) as well as the two tone bracelet, and the two tone case.

I'm well aware of the disclaimer, as I have ordered two extracts so far this year, and I expect to order many more.

Again if I sent Omega photos of say a Japan racing model with the racing dial that is a model 35704000, or a Misukoshi ref 35703100 (or any one of the 30 or so Speedmasters that use this same case, but have a different dial than a regular 3575000), and the serial number was for a regular 35705000, I would not expect them to issue an extract for it. Otherwise, why would they even ask for photos?

If they did they did issue one, I would hope they would at least list the correct dial variant on the extract, but in the past when there has been a discrepancy, they have cancelled the extract. The only difference is now, you don't get your money back apparently.

 
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Well, clearly they have the PIC right for the serial number, but they have simply noted the dial variation based on your photo, and not based on what the watch is supposed to have. The 37111060 is the all yellow dial variant shown here on the brown strap...not what you were sold.

96a79e36-870e-4287-aae6-cbbab5a33325-jpeg.943171

So to me, this is most certainly not an extract from the archive, but something issued to reflect what the photos you sent to them contained.

The extract process gets murkier all the time...
 
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Well, clearly they have the PIC right for the serial number, but they have simply noted the dial variation based on your photo, and not based on what the watch is supposed to have. The 37111060 is the all yellow dial variant shown here on the brown strap...not what you were sold.

96a79e36-870e-4287-aae6-cbbab5a33325-jpeg.943171

So to me, this is most certainly not an extract from the archive, but something issued to reflect what the photos you sent to them contained.

The extract process gets murkier all the time...

Archer, I don’t know anything that would allow your thoughts to be challenged but the Extract has both a production date and city where the watch was first sold so some level of research must have been done to justify the CHF120 charge.

I’ll be keeping the watch now and be comfortable wearing it which wasn’t the case when I got it.
 
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Archer, I don’t know anything that would allow your thoughts to be challenged but the Extract has both a production date and city where the watch was first sold so some level of research must have been done to justify the CHF120 charge.

I’ll be keeping the watch now and be comfortable wearing it which wasn’t the case when I got it.

If you are happy with the watch, that's fine. It has the wrong dial on it for the serial and model, but this isn't exactly a hugely collectible series of watches, so the impact on actual value will likely be minimal if anything at all.

My issue is more about what the extract process is - if this were truly an extract from the archive, it would say the dial was fully gilt (yellow) like the one in the photo with the brown strap on it. The fact that they have cited the white dial, which is for a completely different model (PIC) tells me they just looked at the photo you sent and used that for the dial colour, and ignored what the watch should have on it.

The requirement to send a photo has never made any sense to me for a true extract from the archives. All they should really need for the is a serial number...

Whatever this process is, it's not really an extract from an archive, but a combination of some information from the archive and what they see in the photos you send them.
 
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If you are happy with the watch, that's fine. It has the wrong dial on it for the serial and model, but this isn't exactly a hugely collectible series of watches, so the impact on actual value will likely be minimal if anything at all.

My issue is more about what the extract process is - if this were truly an extract from the archive, it would say the dial was fully gilt (yellow) like the one in the photo with the brown strap on it. The fact that they have cited the white dial, which is for a completely different model (PIC) tells me they just looked at the photo you sent and used that for the dial colour, and ignored what the watch should have on it.

The requirement to send a photo has never made any sense to me for a true extract from the archives. All they should really need for the is a serial number...

Whatever this process is, it's not really an extract from an archive, but a combination of some information from the archive and what they see in the photos you send them.


I took this catalogue page said to be 1991 off the net. I emailed the person who built the website but didn’t get a reply.

I used to race and collect old bicycles. There is some great information online but it seems anyone with original Omega catalogues wants to sell them at ridiculous prices.
 
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I took this catalogue page said to be 1991 off the net. I emailed the person who built the website but didn’t get a reply.

I used to race and collect old bicycles. There is some great information online but it seems anyone with original Omega catalogues wants to sell them at ridiculous prices.
 
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Archer, 3711.20, what does this number represent in the pictured catalogue and could this be my watch model?

Thanks for your continued assistance.
 
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Archer, 3711.20, what does this number represent in the pictured catalogue and could this be my watch model?

Thanks for your continued assistance.

Which of the references starting with 3711.20 are you referring to?

37112001
37112002
37112003
37112004
37112006
37112007
37112008
37112009
37112010
37112011
37112012
37112016
37112020
37112033
37112050
37112051
37112052
37112053
37112056
37112058
37112060
37112080
37112098
37112099

Please listen carefully...your watch is a 37111060 with the wrong dial on it. I can't make this any clearer than I have multiple times already.
 
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Which of the references starting with 3711.20 are you referring to?

37112001
37112002
37112003
37112004
37112006
37112007
37112008
37112009
37112010
37112011
37112012
37112016
37112020
37112033
37112050
37112051
37112052
37112053
37112056
37112058
37112060
37112080
37112098
37112099

Please listen carefully...your watch is a 37111060 with the wrong dial on it. I can't make this any clearer than I have multiple times already.
 
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OK Archer, I’ll end the conversation here. Thanks for your input. I’m not a slow learner. I was simply looking at the watch in the catalogue with the black leather strap that mine looks identical too ...
 
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OK Archer, I’ll end the conversation here. Thanks for your input. I’m not a slow learner. I was simply looking at the watch in the catalogue with the black leather strap that mine looks identical too ...

Yours looks identical to a 37112001. However Omega has confirmed that your watch is actually a 37111060...with the dial from a 37112001.