Extract of Archives ... ?

Regretfully, I’d have to agree with you. The EOA validated that watch and undoubtedly many other less expensive manipulated watches.

Hmmm,a few thoughts about Extracts of Archives:

How does it help us collectors? Serious question. Even if I would love to order extracts for my Omegas, because I just love documents and completing stuff, I don't see a real use case anymore.

- Authenticity: The EoA was never meant to help here. Even if many people used it for that. More like a note on how it left the factory. And I think, the vintage Omega collector's commutity knows how to spot fakes. Tricky and well-done Franken pieces are the real issue I think. But if a Franken is done well, did EoAs ever really help here? Real question, not rhetorical.

- Is the watch in a possible configuration? I think, for most vintage Omega references of relevance, there are enough sources to get information on which movement went with which reference and what dial options there were.

- Age? Vintage Omegas are dated by their movement serial number. Tables are available on many websites, for free. They give you the year.

- Where was the watch originally delivered to and on which date? It's charming to know that. But does it really matter?

- Is it a stolen watch? I heard a couple times the phrase "An extract was ordered and came back without remarks, so it has a clean provenance." I ask genuinely: Should you use an EoA for this? Or is this BS and there are better ways to determine that?

- Authenticity, pt. 2: If you have a really valueable vintage Omega in high tens of thousands or even six digits. Like a special military piece, early Broad Arrows or Ultramans. I could definately see why it's relevant not only to have the info that it is in a possible configuration, but in THE correct configuration. But why on earth would someone stop at an Extract of Archive here? If we are talking about a 50k watch, do these 500 Dollars more really matter that much not to go for the full authenticity program?

To be honest, if I would order an extract for a Constellation with a grey dial, and the extract would say that it was delivered with a white dial, what would I do? Probably browse the usual websites now and then to see if a matching dial would come up at a reasonable price... Now this would be a topic for the community to discuss limits until when it is the "right" thing for the watch to bring it back to extract specs. And when it is just Franken-watch-ing.

In conclusion, I don't see a real use for Extracts. Other than being a beautiful document ad giving a few charming but irrevelant info (provence question to be answered). It would help the collectors more to have a neat and respected service for serious authentification of very special and valueable pieces.

One more thing: I contacted Eterna a few months ago via email. I asked them if they could make an EoA for one of my watches. I added a few photos and wrote down all the important numbers. Their answer came back a few days later and was only "Number X is the reference number, Y is the serial number. And your watch was built in 1975." Even if that wasn't exactly what I asked for (a document by the maker), I loved this response. And after a bit of thinking, I don't see the need for further documentation for this watch anymore.

I think that if you buy a vintage Omega watch that does not exceed 5 digits, you would be happy to be sure that it is not a Franken and that the movement inside corresponds to the model you are buying, there are for example tons of 165.024 that have movements from other models, and some Speed 321s as well....

I can completely understand that an extract would help if it is a watch that is linked to a specific place, family member or importer!

Good point! Just to learn: How would you handle a watch that is converted? Like a Seamaster chrono that has a Speedmaster movement? Would you insits of ordering an extract first before buying (if the EoA is open again)? Or would you go back to the seller afterwards? I could imagine that both options could be tricky.

Thank you for this info. I didn't spend much time with Speedmasters so far, more with 60s Cal. 562/564/565 Geneves and Constellations.Never felt like the years I got wouldn't match. But good to know that there are issues.

That would be great!

There surely are a lot of mash-ups out there! Nice Joker picture by the way 😀

Omegas until the late 1930s were dated according to case number (not movement number as @97'vintage writes). Because movements were numbered in batches, the dating of these older watches according to movement numbers can sometimes be wrong by even 10 years.

The Extracts have been of value to collectors of these older watches, firstly to show the date of production, secondly the 'client' (at least country of delivery), thirdly to show the reference number of the watch (often impossible to know otherwise) - and to confirm that the case and movement numbers were as they left the factory.

Sadly fakes are to be found in all areas of our lives - the information I have listed can be of considerable interest to collectors of the older watches.

in addition to some speeds I am lucky to have one of the versions of the joker, I think I presented it here

That's interesting to know. Thanks!
My pocket watch for example.
Movement number: 7562650 would be 1932.
Case number: 7967032 would be 1934.

So are we saying 1934 is the correct manufacturing date then?

Your query is an ideal example of exactly what I was referring to. If an Extract of the Archive were available, you would (hopefully) know the date of your watch. As it is, you are left guessing.

As for the dates you offer, it’s hard to know your source. There are different lists for the (suggested) dating of cases and for movements. For example, on page 792 of AJTT there is a list for ‘Case numbers and their respective earliest date” – of relevance to you, 7,000,000 shows 1925 and 8,000,000 shows 1929. There is a separate list for “Movement numbers and their respective earliest date” – 7,000,000 shows 1920 and 8,000,000 shows 1934.

From a comparison of my own watches with case numbers similar to yours, I would guess nearer 1929/1930. But to confuse things, Omega made batches (sometimes of many thousands of watches) with numbers that were allocated to those watches that were made over several years.

It’s a shame you can’t get an Extract!