Extract of Archives ... ?

Posts
162
Likes
187
Hi all,

I tried now for 2 months to got get an EoA, but from my side it always says that this service presently is not available.

Is there anyone with the same experiance? Is there a fault on my side? Or could it be that this service no longer is available at all? Would be nice to have this working again...

Happy if you could share your experience with this.

Best,
Caslock
 
Posts
28,654
Likes
34,905
No it’s not available at the moment because some stuff happened, it’s a very long story but it will likely be back at some point.
 
Posts
162
Likes
187
Huh, I get your point.....! Interesting read!

To what extend should we rely on the older Extracts: are they worth anything? In earlier threads there were already signs of doubt.....
 
Posts
28,654
Likes
34,905
Huh, I get your point.....! Interesting read!

To what extend should we rely on the older Extracts: are they worth anything? In earlier threads there were already signs of doubt.....
They were never really meant to be relied on in the first place, more a for interest thing or a nice addition for owners of a vintage piece than any form of real authentication
 
Posts
10,927
Likes
19,221
Imo all an extract tells you in the country of delivery and whether the serial is correct for that particular reference.
 
Posts
330
Likes
326
Imo all an extract tells ……the serial is correct for that particular reference.

Are we even sure of that?
Maybe for lower models, but for the $$$ ones?
 
Posts
162
Likes
187
Did anyone ever see a page of the original production (or delivery) book of Omega? Are these infos given there at all? Or better: what data is documented on these pages?
Edited:
 
Posts
91
Likes
191
IMG_2007.jpeg Buy new @retail and you don’t have the worries of frankensteins plus 5 yrs guarantee
 
Posts
10,927
Likes
19,221
Are we even sure of that?
Maybe for lower models, but for the $$$ ones?

Why would the archives, a set of data records with no agenda, care how much a watch is worth? It’s when people try to infer more than is actually in the archives when the problems start
Am I missing something?
 
Posts
215
Likes
918
Did anyone ever see a page of the original production (or delivery) book of Omega? Are these infos given there at all? Or better: what data is documented on these pages?
Guessing this is as close as we get.

https://www.fratellowatches.com/omegas-extract-of-the-archives-how-it-works/

To me it is fairly clear that extracts saying fancy details such as orange hands or whatever comes more from the owner mentioning them than Omega finding it in their archives.

After the latest problems Omega has had with fraud I would be surprised to see the extracts come back. They add very little and is more of a tool to verify things that may not be true.
 
Posts
330
Likes
326
Why would the archives, a set of data records with no agenda, care how much a watch is worth? It’s when people try to infer more than is actually in the archives when the problems start
Am I missing something?

I was pointing to the recent revelation that some EoA have questionable authenticity, as well as the EoA that list special hands, bezels or other items. There have been implications that such statements are based on supplied images and not on records kept at the factory. All of those have been used to show factory authenticity to justify a price premium. I don’t follow closely, but I have not seen anyone show evidence of what is actually recorded in the factory. It is interesting that in the automotive world, factory records are not so well hidden.
 
Posts
10,927
Likes
19,221
I was pointing to the recent revelation that some EoA have questionable authenticity, as well as the EoA that list special hands, bezels or other items. There have been implications that such statements are based on supplied images and not on records kept at the factory. All of those have been used to show factory authenticity to justify a price premium. I don’t follow closely, but I have not seen anyone show evidence of what is actually recorded in the factory. It is interesting that in the automotive world, factory records are not so well hidden.

That’s my point, they’re only good for confirming country/date of manufacture/delivery and whether the serial originally came in that reference. Everything else should be taken with a huge grain of salt.
 
Posts
215
Likes
918
The biggest help they will give is when it doesn’t match. Then you KNOW something is off. :)
 
Posts
2,264
Likes
3,645
Part of the issue was that people had to be paid for the time to search through this stuff. By charging for the service more value was probably instilled than was implied.

In an ideal world this information would be scanned and the raw material placed online. This though still does not prevent the abuse of creating fake entries or gaming the system for greed and gain.

The reason we want this info, is to increase the value of out our watches. A way of showing that they are real.

As a person interested in the history of technology I find things like the microfiche of the lemania punched card fascinating SpeedyTuesday-OmegaExtractoftheArchives-1.jpg

These are IBM index cards what date back to the US 1880 census. In the 1930s this equipment was exported and used for voting machines till the 2000s when some people wanted to re-write history and claim the holes were not cleanly punched. The tech was also used by the Wiemarch government to locate undesirable people. (The dark history of IBM.) The tech really became commonplace after the War. This means Omega would have had an IBM or similar computer in the 1960s.

Curious then as to what survived and what did not. The results of the info on the card would probably have been stored on mag tape. The cards were machine readable, but what survived was a photograph. When I was little we would get boxes of such cards from the oil refineries or other companies to use in art projects.

There must be more of this material in closets attics and such. When I was little dumpster diving was an art. literally. That is how we got stuff for art projects. Then when people began selling other peoples trash. Someone made this illegal. Why not profit from the trash of others? I guess it is when deception happens that the fine line is crossed.

In college I was interested how such things were read and did my final on a paper tape punch. Should have kept more than 2 tapes. As noted elsewhere I built machines for the reading of player piano rolls. Which is a project I am still working on. Not to mention a Kodak film scanner. When Kodak failed. The buildings were bulldozed. I got one of the scanners but no driver software. One person had a backup, but it was damaged when copied from mac to windows and the metadata (Resource forks) were lost. I spent months and hours trying to recreate this software before falling into old bad habits of adding old watches to my collection.

Since I am also a bit of a polymath I used this tech on the online NASA JPL archives to download and reconstruct nearly 8000 mariner 9 data images. For decades I had the ability to read the data. Was not till I met others at a SETI convention I learned about the Online JPL archives. When I went into them I found them to be a mess. With data in the wrong folders. This work is done by interns and grant writing. When the grant money runs out the project gets abandoned. Best case is the data winds up on archive.org.

Greed though says such data is 'Owned.' By immortal corporations. What persist in keeping the laboring classes ignorant. I always though the masonic secret was quite the opposite. Hopefully this is an area where I am wrong. The house of the paperii in Herculaneum was re-sealed. On the other hand there is tradition of looting artifacts and selling them to the highest bidder. On the other hand one can plant seed in the ground and reap the harvest. Countries demand the return of their 'Cultural heritage' from each other.

The Herculaneum scrolls dismissed as epicurean philosophical nonsense. Next to impossible to find out much about this. Other than fluff documentaries what are mostly clickbait. Same for the Antykeythera dives. It is maddening to watch a documentary what does not credit the older books and documentaries as the new broom dismiss the older stuff is wrong and was written by idiot what know nothing.

In the world of orchestration collecting. Some collectors kept the Wurlitzer factory records to themselves. The reason was that the records could show the most likely place for literal barn finds. I was loaned some of these records to scan. One family did not want any of the rolls scanned (even though the collector did before he died. Just never got around to it) The heirs felt scanning the rolls to MIDI would lessen the value on eBay. So the collection was parted out.

I found it interesting that the WWII code breaking equipment was destroyed. No one ever blabbed about it. Then when it was declassified and Hollywood films made. It turned out the engineers did take the notes home. So the machines could be (mostly) replicated.

I had a chance to make a copy of the plans for Babbages computer of the 1830s. Problem is the way Academia works is that someone spends a lifetime studying stuff. The so called publish or perish. So a lot of history is kept private.

Watched the "Name of the Rose." The other night. That film really does make it seem like not much has changed when it comes to archives and the value of ideas.

Each generation writes the history of the ones that came before.
 
Posts
15,944
Likes
33,691
Early in my working life, I was training to be a data processor. At the end of a lesson the instructor told me and my mate Frank to take four wooden boxes of punch cards back down to the computer room (on the floor below. In our hurry to get done and off to the pub, Frank tripped on the stairs and crashed into me.
The boxes tumbled down the stairs and cards went everywhere.
They were quickly gathered up and put back in the boxes as fast as we could go, all the while hoping nobody else was going to use the stairs.
With all the cards back in the boxes, we quietly placed them on the counter and snuck out of the building.

I think there must have been a lot of head scratching and cursing when they went to load those cards.
 
Posts
162
Likes
187
@PerJ: I did not know this Fratello -write -up, now I have an idea how that worked in the past!

For me as a collector, brands that offer archive-data seem to be more attractive since you get confirmation of what you already guessed. It is a bit of a play and adds an extra thrill to your purchase: eagerly waiting for the watch to arrive, than waiting for relevant data. Personally, I do not expect an additional value coming from that data, but I am indeed more attracted to that brand because it is offering this.

The companies that offer this service probably know this and fire up the attention for their brand by doing so. More attention for the company will result in higher prices for vintage timepieces and will eventually affect the prices of their modern collection too.

Having said this, I have the feeling that they will offer this service again some day.
Edited:
 
Posts
267
Likes
641
Not sure if already on another thread but:
The service on EoA will come back in 2024.

Got an email:
Es freut uns, Ihnen mitteilen zu können, dass der OMEGA-Archivauszug im Jahr 2024 vorgestellt werden wird. Um sicherzustellen, dass Sie zu den Ersten gehören, die davon profitieren, bitten wir Sie, uns über unsere verschiedenen Kommunikationskanäle zu folgen.

In English:
We are pleased to announce that the OMEGA archive extract will be presented in 2024. To ensure you are among the first to benefit, we ask you to follow us through our various communication channels.