Extract from the Archives rejected with no info and no refund

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Regardless of someone going to check the archives, getting no result is not a service worth paying for.
Personally, I agree with you. This is why I never paid for this service regardless of what the result would have been. However, the work was done. I’m sure some watches will take less than 20 minutes to look up and others will be more. All averages out.

I imagine it does not take long too do the research, and I think it is quite a money maker by my modest standards. Twenty mins looking at micro fiche for 120chf?

That’s about $360/hour. Not cheap but not ridiculously expensive, either.
gatorcpa
 
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I can encourage you to make a trip to our beautiful Switzerland, book an appointment at the Archives and ask them to show you what kind of work do they have to go through for some watches in order to fetch the information from old books.

That's a kind of an old-school multi-table SQL query they run manually and sometimes it takes much more than twenty minutes to provide with a satisfying outcome.

The average salary in Switzerland doesn't help to get the process cheaper. Wait, they could outsource the whole thing to Pakistan (!) 😀

Who would want to get paid in Bitcoin though?

That’s about $360/hour. Not cheap but not ridiculously expensive, either.
gatorcpa

$220 an hour for labor by an "A" tech with full manufacturer training met at an Audi dealer is the highest labor rate I personally know of at this time and can confirm. $360 an hour to look up books is a bit steep in comparison. However, there are a lot of things in this world where the actual labor activity/job (hard work or barely at all) and the amount of money charged in order to complete required said activity do not make sense so I could not make a case for such an argument. I personally see it as a task is worth charging what someone is willing to pay. Consumers will see to that.
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I can encourage you to make a trip to our beautiful Switzerland, book an appointment at the Archives and ask them to show you what kind of work do they have to go through for some watches in order to fetch the information from old books.



That's a kind of an old-school multi-table SQL query they run manually and sometimes it takes much more than twenty minutes to provide with a satisfying outcome.

The average salary in Switzerland doesn't help to get the process cheaper. Wait, they could outsource the whole thing to Pakistan (!) 😀

The watch industry is a luxury commodity so profit on the actual product is huge, and customer service should be a large factor in its business costs, such as is also spent on advertising and promotion.
As we know a few brands manage to offer this service for free, so regardless of the depths the archives goes to, I think it is a poor and greedy decision by Omega.
 
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@simonsays they progress by exploring opportunities, not by solving problems 😉

doesn’t mean I disagree with you 😀
 
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In reality you got the information you requested and paid for...which is that there is something amiss with the watch. Its not the info you hoped for, but it is indeed what you paid for and exactly why the service is valuable.

If the records for your watch were simply missing from the archives you would have received a refund.
 
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For much of the Swiss watch manufacturing history records have been very poorly kept. Companies were in the business of selling watches, they had no reason to believe anybody would be interested in a watch's history 50 or 75 years in the future, plus companies got bought, sold and went out of business over the years, buildings flooded or burned down. Patek Philippe kept very detailed records because production was low, prices were high and there was little turnover in ownership and this has translated to part of the premium the market pays for a PP watch.....provenance. Mass makers like Rolex and Omega churned out all kinds of watches over the years, and its only over the past decade or so that they have tried to resurrect and reconstruct their history, but a lot of holes and missing/confusing information in embedded in their reconstruction.

In this case research was done to determine the information needed for an extract to be provided.....but the data is missing or inconsistent, so rather than faking it they properly refused to issue an extract. But you have to pay for their effort, you duly entered into that contract when you asked and paid for the service. If you go to the doctor with what you think is a problem and the doctor runs a test and says there is no problem you still have to pay for the service. Same with insurance, we pay for it, hope to never use it, but never expect to get a refund for not using it.

This extract thing for older watches is a bit silly, imo. Old watches have lived hard lives, parts have been changed, swapped out....no surprise that data doesn't always match up. Unless you have a very valuable watch, or a watch that isn't too old but just missing the original documentation, an extract might be worth it, but for most watches it isn't worth the effort, time and money, imvho.
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I can encourage you to make a trip to our beautiful Switzerland, book an appointment at the Archives and ask them to show you what kind of work do they have to go through for some watches in order to fetch the information from old books.



That's a kind of an old-school multi-table SQL query they run manually and sometimes it takes much more than twenty minutes to provide with a satisfying outcome.

The average salary in Switzerland doesn't help to get the process cheaper. Wait, they could outsource the whole thing to Pakistan (!) 😀

This was in the past! Now most of the archive information is digitised and can be read on the computer with a few mouse clicks - this works for watches from about 1939 and younger. So not much time spent to find the information!

Only the watches which are older have to be looked up in the large archive books you show - for example an old pocket watch from around 1900 or a sought after "Banana" from the 20ies or a valuable pilot watch from 1935.

These watches have to be looked for by using the case number instead the movement number.
 
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Who would want to get paid in Bitcoin though?



$220 an hour for labor by an "A" tech with full manufacturer training met at an Audi dealer is the highest labor rate I personally know of at this time and can confirm. $360 an hour to look up books is a bit steep in comparison. However, there are a lot of things in this world where the actual labor activity/job (hard work or barely at all) and the amount of money charged in order to complete required said activity do not make sense so I could not make a case for such an argument. I personally see it as a task is worth charging what someone is willing to pay. Consumers will see to that.

Have you never engaged the services of a solicitor/lawyer in the past. They have some crazy rates.
 
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In reality you got the information you requested and paid for...which is that there is something amiss with the watch. Its not the info you hoped for, but it is indeed what you paid for and exactly why the service is valuable.

but I didn’t get ANY information, and paid the same regardless. I still own an 861 mvt with a certain serial number and they could tell me what is WAS in even if they disagree that it’s in the case it is in.

I argue that they haven’t done as much work than for a full extract - where’s the nicely embossed certificate in the post etc?

To be honest, I’ve found the customer service to be appalling (9 days avg response time on emails) and arrogant and blunt, and it’s made me think a lot less of the brand than I had previously. And I own three omega watches so really they should consider me a loyal ambassador.

And ultimately, if I was running a company that values its brand perception as highly as Omega, I’d expect higher standards from my team.

for those who wanted pictures:
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but I didn’t get ANY information, and paid the same regardless. I still own an 861 mvt with a certain serial number and they could tell me what is WAS in even if they disagree that it’s in the case it is in.

I argue that they haven’t done as much work than for a full extract - where’s the nicely embossed certificate in the post etc?

To be honest, I’ve found the customer service to be appalling (9 days avg response time on emails) and arrogant and blunt, and it’s made me think a lot less of the brand than I had previously. And I own three omega watches so really they should consider me a loyal ambassador.

And ultimately, if I was running a company that values its brand perception as highly as Omega, I’d expect higher standards from my team.

for those who wanted pictures:
But an extract with the nice embossed seal will NOT match what your watch is now......replaced back, service dial and who knows what else. They aren't going to give you an extract based on what you have in hand, that's not the purpose of the extract. I think you are disappointed with what you have discovered about your watch and in not getting any real info from Omega to help soothe that fact. Just time to move on.
 
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But an extract with the nice embossed seal will NOT match what your watch is now......replaced back, service dial and who knows what else. They aren't going to give you an extract based on what you have in hand

you missed my point - I get that I can’t have an extract for this watch, that’s a shame, but fine. What I’m challenging is that I should pay the same for what has been less work from them.
Plus their CS has been awful.
 
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but I didn’t get ANY information, and paid the same regardless.

I argue that they haven’t done as much work than for a full extract - where’s the nicely embossed certificate in the post etc?

You received way more info than you think. You are being told the sn doesn't jive...this is priceless info. The paper is a mere formality, and worthless as a standalone document. What has the most value is the information. Did you want something like this? no charge, you can thank me later
 
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Have you never engaged the services of a solicitor/lawyer in the past. They have some crazy rates.

Yes, last week. And as I said, some do not make sense 👍.
 
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I do think that the change to the terms and conditions are less than generous. Regardless of someone going to check the archives, getting no result is not a service worth paying for. If you ask a book store to see if they have something in the back, I don't expect to be charged to find out they don't.

There are two reasons you won't get an extract:
1- the record is not available for your watch- you get a refund
2- the record is available and your info doesn't jive- you don't get a refund

if #1- the book store says 'sorry we don't have this book'...no charge.
if #2 is the case...its more like asking the book store to confirm the copy on page 32, paragraph 9 of a book in their archives. They research this, find the book and the page and compare the paragraph to what you supplied only to find it doesn't match. This is called research and they want to get compensated for their time

how are these the same thing?

if you don't like the terms, then don't give them your credit card and agree to them.
 
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So you bought a watch with obviously wrong parts for the reference. Then you ask for an extract and get THE information that the watch is not correct.
And now u blame omega for doing their job ( even u don’t like the outcome)

Who’s fault is it really ?

always keep in mind ... if u buy cheap u buy twice
 
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You solicit and agree to pay for the research work. The work is done. You don’t like the result so you want a refund? It does not work that way.
But it always has worked like that until a month ago. I personally think charging full price for a miss match and no issue of a cert is a ridiculous liberty. You are paying for the certificate. If they must reject requests then by all means charge a nominal fee to prevent vexatious requests, £25 maybe, to reflect the effort expended. Or use the new income steam from failed requests to lower the overall fee to something more palatable to lessen the pain for those that get nothing. IMO charging the full fee is very poor from a customer satisfaction POV. I have 2 extracts but I wont be rushing to get one in future if this is their attitude. I wonder if Swatch Stablemate Longines still offer their completely free service or has that been ‘improved’ too. It’s hard to justify a hefty research fee when a closely related arm of the organisation can do it for free.
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What is the problem? You enter a contract and the contract details are clearly stated. They do their work . The result is not matching your details = No Refund. Try that with Rolex. You are not worthy an Answer..... kind regards. Achim
It all depends who You talk to... 😗
 
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But it always has worked like that until a month ago. I personally think charging full price for a miss match and no issue of a cert is a ridiculous liberty. You are paying for the certificate. If they must reject requests then by all means charge a nominal fee to prevent vexatious requests, £25 maybe, to reflect the effort expended. Or use the new income steam from failed requests to lower the overall fee to something more palatable to lessen the pain for those that get nothing. IMO charging the full fee is very poor from a customer satisfaction POV. I have 2 extracts but I wont be rushing to get one in future if this is their attitude. I wonder if Swatch Stablemate Longines still offer their completely free service or has that been ‘improved’ too. It’s hard to justify a hefty research fee when a closely related arm of the organisation can do it for free.

you pay for a SERVICE which keeps people busy from doing other work. the extract (and the NO extract) is just the OUTCOME of this service.
 
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I hear Omega will be charging those customers visiting the boutique and not buying a watch. Bloody time wasters!
 
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Or hire the OF forum team to digitize all of this.

Half of them are your watches anyway 😉