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Civic4982
·Learned a lot about Ed white lug shape in this thread. Either way that’s a a lot of watch for $4.2k and a nice pickup.
Edited:
eBay Ed White grab - what’s right, what’s wrong & why I grabbed it anyway
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merchandiser
·For further comparison here are some pics of my 105.003 case, quite thick with wide bevels and plenty of wear:
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eugeneandresson
·Very amusing!
There’s a slight difference in how the hippocampus looks between the two. And the ‘new’ one has virtually no dirt on its plunger necks.
Wow, so I got most of them wrong 😲 I was guessing (and if I am stating the obvious, for posterity, please excuse me!) by applying ‘repolished/recut case will have the smaller polygons vs untouched case (for the same case)’...but clearly not so...some of them are fatter. Could it be a refinished 2998 case? FWIW I also tried to make head or tail of cases (couldn't find oddboys thread, as I searched for a similar thread before creating) ...
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padders
··Oooo subtitles!The thickness of material is suggestive. I am still thinking modern case, or as suggested a post 1960s service case. Will do a comp pic with my EW and modern case straight lug later. The EW pic 2 before mine is not typical, those bevels are larger than what is normally seen. Maybe it’s a -64? Those have more of a curve rather than a defined bevel.
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padders
··Oooo subtitles!Managed to grab a few quick comparison shots between my -65 Echo Whiskey and the Trilogy Speedmaster. The modern watch is on the darker strap. The lugs are rather different, the modern ones deeper, and maybe thinner with a much more pronounced bevelled facet. The EW has bottom flats with a larger area. Now I can't guarantee my watch has exactly the profile it left the factory with (which of us can) but it hasn't been obviously refinished and it looks pretty straight in other respects.
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nzshadow
·It's threads like this that add so much value. I am so happy that found this amazing site.
I feel like I should be taking notes.
I feel like I should be taking notes.
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eugeneandresson
·Here is another post that, if one looks carefully, highlights the differences between cases within the same major reference ... wish to have more pics like this.
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merchandiser
·Really good stuff here!
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joe band
·regarding the dial, while researching my '68 transitional i found these pics of replacement dials that "aren't quite right."
pic 1.
AML, short hour plots
pic 2.
PL, long hour plots
i don't know if they are for cal 321 or 861, but always something in omega's endless variety to keep us enthralled.
pic 1.
AML, short hour plots
pic 2.
PL, long hour plots
i don't know if they are for cal 321 or 861, but always something in omega's endless variety to keep us enthralled.
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airansun
·Managed to grab a few quick comparison shots between my -65 Echo Whiskey and the Trilogy Speedmaster. The modern watch is on the darker strap. The lugs are rather different, the modern ones deeper, and maybe thinner with a much more pronounced bevelled facet. The EW has bottom flats with a larger area. Now I can't guarantee my watch has exactly the profile it left the factory with (which of us can) but it hasn't been obviously refinished and it looks pretty straight in other respects.
Thank you @padders !
Top is your photo, with the Ed White on a light brown strap.
Bottom photos are both sides of the case on my new watch.
I know which one I think my watch most resembles.
@bags1971 ’s watch:
My new watch on top and my best Ed, without the fluting, on the bottom:
Finally, @padders ’s modern watch’s case again:
😗
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padders
··Oooo subtitles!Well if I am seeing it right, it doesn't look much like the modern profile but is a lot more pronounced than any of the other EW shots. Period factory refinish/ service mid case then?
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Spacefruit
··Prolific Speedmaster HoarderFor me, that’s a re cut case.
I have been seeing them recently. They are getting better too
I think the Rolex refinishers are starting to have a go at straight lugs - or their dealer customers are pushing them.
I think that because I saw two with Rolex style finishing on top of the lugs, instead of polishing.
I have been seeing them recently. They are getting better too
I think the Rolex refinishers are starting to have a go at straight lugs - or their dealer customers are pushing them.
I think that because I saw two with Rolex style finishing on top of the lugs, instead of polishing.
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simonsays
·A Bienne factory service will result in a re polish to that specification. I had one recently that was exactly the same. It was very well done but excessive bevels. They match the FOIS though so it makes sense, and easily removes any sign of wear and tear.
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airansun
·Period factory refinish/ service mid case then?
For me, that’s a re cut case. ... I think the Rolex refinishers are starting to have a go at straight lugs - or their dealer customers are pushing them.
A Bienne factory service will result in a re polish to that specification.
I agree it’s most likely a refinished original case. But, by whom?
I suspect it’s most likely a ‘factory service’ because if it was those ‘Rolex fiends’, they would have reflexively replaced the dial in furtherance of their manipulation.
The watch is already at my watchmaker, so I can’t take more pictures.
I’ve already placed an WTB thread for tritium hands, as I’ve decided to only replace the luminova hands and the B2 crown.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/321-speedmaster-tritium-hands.99226/
So, with what we’ve explored here, what do you think the watch is worth? I have no intention of selling the watch, so my question is intended to be strictly academic. Before starting, I’d have guessed the value was something a little in excess of the sum of its parts.
And then there’s that dial. At the moment, such dials are probably like 220 bezels, rare and unique, but not really valued more. Of course, these rare service dials aren’t restricted to a specific serial number range.
Anyway, my guess:
Movement - $3k once serviced because it looks to be in an unabused state, assuming the extract show EW
Case back - $2k because it’s so crisp
Mid band - $1k because, although it’s nice, we don’t know...
Dial - $1.5 because it too is nice
DNN Bezel - $0.5k
That comes out to $8k, which is ironic, because if I’d been asked for a number off the top of my head, I would have said $7k.
And, actually, the more I think about it, $7k is closer to the value if I had to guess.
🍿
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S.H.
·😒 VAP at 7-8k? With incorrect parts? That is high imho, compared to a "running" complete 105.003 valued at 9-10k. Don't get me wrong, your watch is cool, I don't want to rain on it.
I'd rather say, 9k minus bezel, minus dial, minus hands, minus crown and did you check the pushers? I think you paid an OKish price, on the high side considering the risks and work involved.
Or else, the "market" is so f*ucked up these days you can actually buy a ratty EW, strip crown dial hands and bezel, sell them, slap service parts on the rest, and make a healthy profit, without even servicing the darn thing. As a watch repair guy, well, I'm a bit sick 🤮
I'd rather say, 9k minus bezel, minus dial, minus hands, minus crown and did you check the pushers? I think you paid an OKish price, on the high side considering the risks and work involved.
Or else, the "market" is so f*ucked up these days you can actually buy a ratty EW, strip crown dial hands and bezel, sell them, slap service parts on the rest, and make a healthy profit, without even servicing the darn thing. As a watch repair guy, well, I'm a bit sick 🤮
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S.H.
·Well, a pile of parts is always more costly than a watch. But the parts I discounted are service, "factory franken" if you like, so their value is nowhere near the originals. I just can't swallow the fact that a "factory franken", with a dial that could use some reluming, is valued 10% less than a correct watch...
We accept prices like this, we end up with the vintage Rolex market, where everything cost an arm and a leg, even some trash liner with a crown on it.
Sorry for the venting 😀
[edit : the post I responded to disappeared; I'm not talking to myself 😁]
We accept prices like this, we end up with the vintage Rolex market, where everything cost an arm and a leg, even some trash liner with a crown on it.
Sorry for the venting 😀
[edit : the post I responded to disappeared; I'm not talking to myself 😁]
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airansun
·compared to a "running" complete 105.003 valued at 9- 10k
I haven’t seen a ‘running’ EW, with all correct parts, for 9 to 10k in sometime.
“Running - Probably needing a service, but almost all parts present and correct for the reference. This is the most common category, be prepared to reduce from here for each incorrect part.” Speedmaster 101
And, obviously, I see the watch as something more than a ‘factory franken’, for the reasons that I think are already apparent. The watch certainly doesn’t offend me, in part because I suspect it wasn’t put together to deceive but to repair a watch somebody cared about. But that’s just my opinion.
And this why I asked for opinions. A ‘controversial’ watch like this will lead to a greater valuation variance. It’s always instructive to hear how others calculate.
Finally, I was asked on PM about the dial. Tritium lume is definitely present on all the markers, but it’s light yellow and didn’t photograph well. There is a step too.
I’ll take a better photo when I get the watch back.
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S.H.
·I haven’t seen a ‘running’ EW, with all correct parts, for 9 to 10k in sometime.
“Running - Probably needing a service, but almost all parts present and correct for the reference. This is the most common category, be prepared to reduce from here for each incorrect part.” Speedmaster 101
I know what running means, that is why I deducted the incorrect parts. But I'm no speedy pricing expert, so if you say @Spacefruit 's chart must be updated, well... I based my valuation on it, and I think that is a big chunk of money already for a watch that is not in a collectible/really good shape. I also think that those price levels are unhealthy, but it is just me. At this rate in a few years we will enter Daytona territory, aka a minefield.
