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Does service dial or parts equal Franken?

Omega D
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Say you purchased an Omega or Rolex new 20 years ago and it needed a new dial or bracelet, the manufacturer changed it with a non original service part.

This changes the character and originality of the watch.

Is this as bad as buying a watch with fake parts or other bits of Omega or Rolex in your franken?

Be honest.
 
gatorcpa
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Omega D Omega D
Is this as bad as buying a watch with fake parts or other bits of Omega or Rolex in your franken?
No, it’s not. But it’s not considered original either. Somewhere in the middle.

IMO, the effect on value is dependent on how different the service parts are from the originals.
gatorcpa
 
Larry S
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A watch with factory service parts is not a franken. It does impact the value to collectors to some extent. Depends on the manufacturer and the model.
Edited:
 
Omega D
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I see a lot of people talk down old submariners with service dials. I got the feeling they were not franken, but felt the watch was damaged goods or not a true Sub anymore. Is suppose it is not as bad as a redial on a vintage? It is still a Rolex or Omega but I suppose not true to the model?

It is very difficult to navigate your true feelings around these topics as people either hold back or respond to harshly.
 
Tony C.
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Omega D Omega D
I see a lot of people talk down old submariners with service dials. I got the feeling they were not franken, but felt the watch was damaged goods or not a true Sub anymore. Is suppose it is not as bad as a redial on a vintage? It is still a Rolex or Omega but I suppose not true to the model?

A service dial, even if it looks notably different from the original (e.g. perhaps a more modern font), does alter the status of the watch, at least in the minds of collectors, as it will no longer be original. But it won't be considered a Franken.

Redials fall into a big grey area, as a poor redial, or (especially) one meant to deceive, will degrade the value of the watch significantly, but technically the watch still wouldn't fall into the Franken category.

Franken, as it is typically used, refers to a watch built using obviously disparate parts, at least some of which being sourced from other models or brands.
Edited:
 
connieseamaster
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Factory parts but installed by the factory/authorized service- not franken, but not necessarily all original

Not factory parts - franken.

Factory parts that are not recognized as OEM issue for a given reference - probably franken.
 
Omega D
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Tony C. Tony C.
A service dial, even if it looks notably different from the original (e.g. perhaps a more modern font), does alter the status of the watch, at least in the minds of collectors, as it will no longer be original. But it won't be considered a Franken.

Redials fall into a big grey area, as a poor redial, or (especially) one meant to deceive, will degrade the value of the watch significantly, but technically the watch still wouldn't fall into the Franken category.

Franken, as it is usually used, typically refers to a watch built using obviously disparate parts, at least some of which being sourced from other models or brands.

Great explanation thanks. So many ideas and opinions it is hard to see wood from trees.
 
gbesq
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Not a franken under those circumstances, but it can certainly affect the collectible value. Omega service routinely replaced (and still replaces) Speedmaster tritium watch dials and hands with superluminova service dials and hands. That doesn't make the watch a franken, but it sure depreciates the value of the watch for collectors.
 
gatorcpa
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gbesq gbesq
Omega service routinely replaced (and still replaces) Speedmaster tritium watch dials and hands with superluminova service dials and hands.
But at least Omega generally returns the original parts with the watch so the watch may be sold with the parts. In a case like that, a new owner can choose to the put the original parts back in lieu of the balance of the Omega warranty after the repair.

With Rolex, not so much. They will not return used parts under any circumstance.
gatorcpa
 
gbesq
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
But at least Omega generally returns the original parts with the watch so the watch may be sold with the parts. In a case like that, a new owner can choose to the put the original parts back in lieu of the balance of the Omega warranty after the repair.

With Rolex, not so much. They will not return used parts under any circumstance.
gatorcpa
True as between what Omega does and what Rolex does, but although Omega returns replaced parts to the owner they generally throw every part replaced into a plastic bag with little concern for whether dials are scratched, hands are bent, etc. For owners of vintage Omegas who wish them to remain vintage, I think that it's best to avoid Omega service altogether and find a good independent watchmaker.
 
gatorcpa
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gbesq gbesq
...but although Omega returns replaced parts to the owner they generally throw every part replaced into a plastic bag with little concern for whether dials are scratched, hands are bent, etc.
I'm sure that if you sent a protective dial case or something to store hands properly along with the watch, Omega would use it if they can. I think they understand the value of an original dial, especially with something like a older Speedmaster.
gatorcpa
 
ALEJANDRO BOVONE
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collectibility details come up within time. but usually desirable collectible features such as a change in production materials or design "flaws" turn a watch into something sought after. checking as it was from factory will always beat replaced parts. though service parts are better than messed with, aka refinished dials.
 
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