Different patina Hands/Dial Rolex 16570

AS69 · Jan 7, 2020

Hi guys !

Just starting to look for a 16570 from 1989 and I noticed that in a majority of the watches I found, there is a difference of patina between the hands and the hours plot (sellers says it is all original).

Is it something 'unacceptable' ("don't buy") or is it ok and normal for this generation of watches ?

Thank you !
Cheers

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vicsdca · Jan 7, 2020

looks like service hands to me. Sometimes the owner does not know the hands were replaced by Rolex during service. The fact that the lume plots did not age evenly and that it has luminova hands makes this example less desirable than others with matching lume color on hands and hour markers. However, it's still worth owning this watch if the price is fair. It's a great reference.

beerbelly · Jan 8, 2020

Mine is 1988 R serial.

ERBM · Jan 8, 2020

Hands have definitely been replaced at some point during a service, I find it a bit jarring personally that there is a really nice patina on the markers but not on the hands, but its entirely up to you if you think the price is reasonable and you don't mind.

Denarius · Jan 8, 2020

beerbelly
Mine is 1988 R serial.

You sure that is a 16570 and not a 16550 with a 16570 bezel? the 16750 wasn't introduced until 1989..

beerbelly · Jan 8, 2020

Denarius
You sure that is a 16570 and not a 16550 with a 16570 bezel? the 16750 wasn't introduced until 1989..

Yup mine is the early batch of 16570 of the crossover.

Lazy_Lightning · Jan 9, 2020

It's not uncommon for the tritium on Explorer 2's from this era to age differently. These examples are nicknamed chichi di mais.

The attached photo I found on TRF shows that even the indices have aged differently from each other.

Edwinowl · Jan 9, 2020

I have one of these, a little later though, its a tough call that one I think i'd say service hands if pushed.

ERBM · Jan 9, 2020

Lazy_Lightning
It's not uncommon for the tritium on Explorer 2's from this era to age differently. These examples are nicknamed chichi di mais.

The attached photo I found on TRF shows that even the indices have aged differently from each other.

On OP's watch the lume on the hands look brand new no aging at all.

Lazy_Lightning · Jan 9, 2020

ERBM
On OP's watch the lume on the hands look brand new no aging at all.

If you reread my response, you’ll note that I didn’t comment on the OPs watch but rather the model/era generally.

With that being said, I will respond to your comment about the hands looking “brand new with no aging at all.” While it’s difficult to know for sure from these photos, if you blow up the photo you’ll see that the hands do seem to have oxidation, which usually occurs with age.

I will, however, comment on a very similar watch that I currently own. From the attached photo you can see the hands are bright white while the indices have a darker patina. The hands are original and this becomes obvious when you see them under the magnification of Loupe with UV lighting.

Bakertime · Jan 9, 2020

Lazy_Lightning
With that being said, I will respond to your comment about the hands looking “brand new with no aging at all.” While it’s difficult to know for sure from these photos, if you blow up the photo you’ll see that the hands do seem to have oxidation, which usually occurs with age.

I agree that the base of both the hour and minute hand have significant aging changes. It is a tough call, will come down to if you like it and the price is in budget.

Denarius · Jan 9, 2020

Lazy_Lightning
It's not uncommon for the tritium on Explorer 2's from this era to age differently. These examples are nicknamed chichi di mais.

The attached photo I found on TRF shows that even the indices have aged differently from each other.

First time I have this where the lume is different on the indices, I like it though and no doubt adds to its value.

ERBM · Jan 9, 2020

Lazy_Lightning
With that being said, I will respond to your comment about the hands looking “brand new with no aging at all.” While it’s difficult to know for sure from these photos, if you blow up the photo you’ll see that the hands do seem to have oxidation, which usually occurs with age.

I do see what you mean that there looks to be some oxidation at i guess what you would call the start of the hands, but I wondered if that was not a shadow because I can see a yellowish reflection in the center where all the hands meet.

My only other thought would is there a scenario where they would replace the hands but not say re-lume the markers or touch anything else? which almost leads me to think that the hands may be original; however people with more experience of Rolex services might be able to have answer for that question.

redpcar · Jan 9, 2020

About 10 yrs ago I replaced the hands on my 16750. They matched at the time. Now, the dial has a lovely patina and the hands still look new 🙁
Luckily, I kept the originals in a box but had some lume missing (thus the replacement).
Next step is to relume the replacements to match <sigh>

Denarius · Jan 9, 2020

As we're talking about tritium changing colour, what do you think causes it?

Some have said lots of sun exposure or the opposite being locked in a dark safe, while others say moisture/humidity.
I think humidity is key as most old Speedmasters have changed with age and are known not to be very water resistant so would let in humid air much easier, while some old Submariners/Seadwellers are still quite white as they are sealed better from the environment.

CoDiffe · Jan 9, 2020

Lazy_Lightning
If you reread my response, you’ll note that I didn’t comment on the OPs watch but rather the model/era generally.

With that being said, I will respond to your comment about the hands looking “brand new with no aging at all.” While it’s difficult to know for sure from these photos, if you blow up the photo you’ll see that the hands do seem to have oxidation, which usually occurs with age.

I will, however, comment on a very similar watch that I currently own. From the attached photo you can see the hands are bright white while the indices have a darker patina. The hands are original and this becomes obvious when you see them under the magnification of Loupe with UV lighting.

Nice - wide "O" porcelain dial

Lazy_Lightning · Jan 9, 2020

My only other thought would is there a scenario where they would replace the hands but not say re-lume the markers or touch anything else? which almost leads me to think that the hands may be original; however people with more experience of Rolex services might be able to have answer for that question.[/QUOTE]

It’s difficult to really understand what’s happened to a watch over the course of a 30 year life—just about anything is possible.

I’ll try to get some really close shots of the hand on my watch tonight. When you use a loop you can see that the tritium on the hands looks aged, it just hasn’t changed color.

JwRosenthal · Jan 9, 2020

redpcar
About 10 yrs ago I replaced the hands on my 16750. They matched at the time. Now, the dial has a lovely patina and the hands still look new 🙁
Luckily, I kept the originals in a box but had some lume missing (thus the replacement).
Next step is to relume the replacements to match <sigh>

I would just have the originals filled and stabilized if it was just a section of the lume missing- what have you got to lose? I had this done with a Seawolf (posted in another thread) and the results are unnoticeable from 1 ft away- only when you get up on it with a loupe can you see where the patch and stabilization differ in texture but not color. If it is a section missing is on the hour hand, it wouldn’t even be noticeable if done well. I would then put your replacement hands away as is since they too have some value on their own.

To the OP, you see opinions are all over on this- it would come down to if you find it attractive or not really. The dramatic difference in color would bother me regardless of originality or not- I wouldn’t be happy with it. That said, if the watch were rediculously cheap- I would pick it up, get another set of hands that have aged similarly to the dial (or service hands and have them relumed to match the dial color) and stash the ones that are on there now so if you do sell it in the future, the next onwer has the option of original or faux-tina’d.

redpcar · Jan 9, 2020

Minute hand was completely missing the lume, sadly. The hour hand looked sketchy. Rolex replacements are readily available so I just swapped them out. Originals are safely tucked away.
I'll be the one doing the work (getting pretty good at matching) so if I screw up, better on the replacements.

vacheroyale · Jan 9, 2020

probably the best test would be to shine on the dial a UV light and see if the lume are all balanced, hands and indexes

Different patina Hands/Dial Rolex 16570

AS69

vicsdca

beerbelly

ERBM

Denarius

beerbelly

Lazy_Lightning

Edwinowl

ERBM

Lazy_Lightning

Bakertime

Denarius

ERBM

redpcar

Denarius

CoDiffe

Lazy_Lightning

JwRosenthal

redpcar

vacheroyale

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