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dennisthemenace
·Anybody know where I can buy a replica Speedmaster? I want to prevent wear and tear to my original, which I will keep in my safe.
Deleted thread? re bezels
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MRC
·Those cars aren't real! Neither are the people driving them!
Here are some more for your enjoyment https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_reproductions.htm 😝
Hope I haven't violated the no replicas rule 😁
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High Hope
·Here are some more for your enjoyment https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/mgtd/mgtd_reproductions.htm 😝
Hope I haven't violated the no replicas rule 😁
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Vercingetorix
··Spam RiskWUS or TRF.
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pdxleaf
·G GammaBingo
Having more copies/replicas/reproductions/forgeries does not make the original less rare or valuable. It would only be less valuable if the supply was increased and the supply of original items could only be increased if they were passed off as the real thing.
A replica Shelby Cobra does not diminish the value of a real Shelby Cobra. Unless suddenly twice as many cars were suddenly "discovered."
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redpcar
·Having more copies/replicas/reproductions/forgeries does not make the original less rare or valuable. It would only be less valuable if the supply was increased and the supply of original items could only be increased if they were passed off as the real thing.
A replica Shelby Cobra does not diminish the value of a real Shelby Cobra. Unless suddenly twice as many cars were suddenly "discovered."
Or if the demand goes away. Take the pocket watch collectors market for instance.
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JwRosenthal
·Or if the demand goes away. Take the pocket watch collectors market for instance.
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Caliber561
·Having more copies/replicas/reproductions/forgeries does not make the original less rare or valuable. It would only be less valuable if the supply was increased and the supply of original items could only be increased if they were passed off as the real thing.
Tell that to people who bought NASA JB Champion/Forstner Bracelets for $500-1000 before the reproduction was released.
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pdxleaf
·Tell that to people who bought NASA JB Champion/Forstner Bracelets for $500-1000 before the reproduction was released.
Point taken.
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Barking mad
··Prolific Speedmaster HoarderMy take is that there is a place for this sort of thing. There are only so many genuine bezels out there and I will guarantee that there are way more watches that fit into the DON range than bezels. I would also wager that a number of DON watches may already have fake bezels and the owner does not know.
OK, so I agree fake is an issue and it should be. The Cambridge Dictionary definition of fake: "an object that is made to look real or valuable in order to deceive people".
I am comfortable with something that is labelled as an option for something that is not available and no longer produced. You could argue that you are stealing from Omega- It is not available from Omega and from what I see they are not about to start remaking them. Yes you can buy an Omega Service Bezel but it is not the same and yes essentially the aftermarket alternative is not either but it is close and more sympathetic to the original.
The bezel is probably the most exposed item on the watch that cannot be repaired or replaced. Case can be repaired, crystal can be replaced (with genuine and it looks the same) and the bracelet or strap is debatable. But hey now we have Uncle Seiko and coming soon Forstner who seem to have been accepted.
For me the crux is the original definition of fake, is Uncle Seiko fake? No they openly advertise as a solution to satisfy a need.
As long as there is no intent to deceive, the item is clearly advertised as non genuine and it is clearly evident it is not original/genuine.
If there are certain companies that are endorsed as being quality and fill a void which could potentially stop people being ripped off where is the downside. There are several examples in other industries where even the original manufacturer will endorse a vendor who provides parts that they no longer can.
Once again it all comes back to the definition of fake. As I am writing I was thinking to myself that I would not accept it for dial, hands, case etc, but why not? As long it is very clear it is not genuine.
OK, so I agree fake is an issue and it should be. The Cambridge Dictionary definition of fake: "an object that is made to look real or valuable in order to deceive people".
I am comfortable with something that is labelled as an option for something that is not available and no longer produced. You could argue that you are stealing from Omega- It is not available from Omega and from what I see they are not about to start remaking them. Yes you can buy an Omega Service Bezel but it is not the same and yes essentially the aftermarket alternative is not either but it is close and more sympathetic to the original.
The bezel is probably the most exposed item on the watch that cannot be repaired or replaced. Case can be repaired, crystal can be replaced (with genuine and it looks the same) and the bracelet or strap is debatable. But hey now we have Uncle Seiko and coming soon Forstner who seem to have been accepted.
For me the crux is the original definition of fake, is Uncle Seiko fake? No they openly advertise as a solution to satisfy a need.
As long as there is no intent to deceive, the item is clearly advertised as non genuine and it is clearly evident it is not original/genuine.
If there are certain companies that are endorsed as being quality and fill a void which could potentially stop people being ripped off where is the downside. There are several examples in other industries where even the original manufacturer will endorse a vendor who provides parts that they no longer can.
Once again it all comes back to the definition of fake. As I am writing I was thinking to myself that I would not accept it for dial, hands, case etc, but why not? As long it is very clear it is not genuine.
Edited:
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TexOmega
·And I can buy fake speedmaster bezels there as well? Homemade in moms basement? And also get some that have uv ink to prove they are not fakes? And pay more for bezels without uv dye to fool others into thinking I have an original? And then I can ask on forums to see where my fake bezels have problems? That sounds like a dream come true! Thanks!
Let me help you a bit, the word you're looking for is "sandbagging".
See how many words and time I saved you?😁
Sandbaggers EARN a special(negative)place in the collecting community. Mr. Forstner Bands Guy barged into our community with no guile and has been rewarded. (I helped here and will in the future.)☕
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Uscjake87
·Why is everybody talking about Omega's intellectual property and feelings? They have lawyers. If they are bothered by aftermarket parts, then you would have heard of them suing people already. Cars have aftermarket fenders and parts. Numerous hobbies have people devoted to aftermarket refurbs. The very act of redialing a watch strips a dial and repaints it. It could have just been a blank aftermarket dial vs original. I guess I would get mad if I had a stash of DONs hoping for a nest egg one day.
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Foo2rama
··Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can.Tell that to people who bought NASA JB Champion/Forstner Bracelets for $500-1000 before the reproduction was released.
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JwRosenthal
·We had a new member here last year asking about replacement bezels for an SM120 he had recently purchased, but it was missing the bezel. He got the “none available-sorry!” response. He went on to ask about the repro “fake” ones on Etsy, if anyone knew someone making a repro that fit, etc- the dude was almost run out on a rail! He had an honest problem (as do all of us SM120 owners), but any viable solution that has been proposed is seen as heresy. He even went so far to suggest that he has friends in China who had facilities capable of making quality reproductions, of a part Omega has chosen to orphan, if there were enough people interested in doing a bulk order. It was as if he had suggested shooting the first born of every member on the forum and crushing every Ed White ever made.
I went on to have a very nice PM conversation with him and he was very Ernest in wanting to make his watch “right”, and was willing to buy an original bezel- if there were any to be had- frankly DON’s are down right abundant in comparison.
It’s a sticky wicket for sure, but one that is a real problem for the collecting community that deserves discussion and solutions and not just flat condemnation.
I went on to have a very nice PM conversation with him and he was very Ernest in wanting to make his watch “right”, and was willing to buy an original bezel- if there were any to be had- frankly DON’s are down right abundant in comparison.
It’s a sticky wicket for sure, but one that is a real problem for the collecting community that deserves discussion and solutions and not just flat condemnation.
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pdxleaf
·...
It’s a sticky wicket for sure, but one that is a real problem for the collecting community that deserves discussion and solutions and not just flat condemnation.
Well said.
This is an interesting topic with thoughtful responses. There hasn't been any name calling or hysterics. EDIT: [Hit reply before finishing. Sorry.]
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cvrle1
·Tell that to people who bought NASA JB Champion/Forstner Bracelets for $500-1000 before the reproduction was released.
I would think that whoever brought original bracelets for those prices did for 2 reasons:
1) they were fine with price they were paying
2) they wanted the original and cared about history of it in regards to Speedmaster and NASA.
When repro's came out, price of originals didnt go down. They stayed about the same. If someone however bough originals hoping that price will keep going up so that they can make a quick flip, tough luck. You played the game and you lost. Price of originals was steadily going down for last year or so, repro had nothing to do with this at all.
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Caliber561
·They changed the size. The vintage ones did not take a huge hit.
Vintage pieces used to sell between $500 to $1000 depending on condition. NOS/NIB bracelets still sell for a lot, but as results like these show:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/JB-Champio...170072?hash=item4dac001bd8:g:~~8AAOSw9shetqbs
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Or...834969?hash=item3fdf08ca99:g:9Z8AAOSw3ftehMoq
People just aren't dishing out as much money as they used to for these.
I would think that whoever brought original bracelets for those prices did for 2 reasons:
1) they were fine with price they were paying
2) they wanted the original and cared about history of it in regards to Speedmaster and NASA.
When repro's came out, price of originals didnt go down. They stayed about the same. If someone however bough originals hoping that price will keep going up so that they can make a quick flip, tough luck. You played the game and you lost. Price of originals was steadily going down for last year or so, repro had nothing to do with this at all.
Just going to point out that the price of vintage bracelets can't have "stayed about the same" while also having been "steadily going down for the last year or so." The recent dip in prices of these bracelets can be correlated to the news of a reproduction being released late last year. I can't claim that it's the only reason that vintage bracelets have dropped in price, but I don't think it would be logical to say the reproduction didn't contribute to the price deflation at all.
Edited:
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