Constellation Lume Identification / Hazard Assessment

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Hi everyone ✋🏻, first post here. I searched and found similar posts, but nothing that highlighted my exact concerns, so I felt it fair to create a new post.
Please excuse any overlap with existing threads.

I have what I believe to be either a 1962 / 1963 omega constellation that belonged to my grandfather.
I'm almost certain it's a ref. 167.005 with pure stainless steel, no date, dauphine hands, baton hour markers, note the presence of divots only at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 batons (this seems to have changed quite a bit during the 60's).

Each baton has a single lume pip at periphery, each around 0.5 mm in diameter. The hour and minute hands also each have a slim lume strip around 0.5 mm thin and approx. 3-4 mm long.

The dial has no “T” mark to indicate tritium, but I know that some of these watches during the early transition period from radium to tritium did not have it.



I’d brought the watch in to have it tested with a Geiger counter and the specialist told me he had no reading from the watch.

However...

I purchased my own pen Geiger counter and in a room where the background radiation reading was around 0.09 microsieverts / hour, I got a reading from the watch on average around 0.31 microsieverts per hour. My highest reading near the watch was 0.53 microsieverts per hour, but the 0.30's are where it seems to sit on average around the point where the crystal meets the case.

I'd assume these are on par with what I'd expect for a tritium lume, but with the small size of the lume pips, I reckon it could very well be radium. So...

Question #1. With the readings I’m getting from the watch, is the lume more likely to be radium or tritium (take into account the size of the lume pips I’d mentioned)?

I then took the watch off and was reading near 0.20 microsieverts per hour on my bare skin where the watch had been, after getting similar baseline readings from background.

I wondered why this would be, and remembered that earlier in the afternoon I'd polished the acrylic crystal with a polishing cloth and liquid compound, with focus on the areas where the crystal meets the case to buff out the scratches along the edge.

To test if somehow this was the cause, I put the Geiger counter directly on the portion of the polishing cloth that I'd used to polish the crystal, and immediately measured around 0.20 microsieverts per hour indicating that whatever material I’d polished off of the crystal was slightly radioactive. It wasn't background deviation as I'd let the counter sit on the table by itself, averaging around 0.09 - 0.14. Immediately it would shoot up to the 0.20's when in close proximity to the cloth.

Embarrassingly, I’d also smelled the crystal earlier to ensure it was not leaving a strong chemical smell on the watch. This, in addition to the frequency with which I've worn the watch over the last three months (around 5-6 days / week, around 12 hours daily), and touched my face, nose, mouth, eyes, after touching the crystal with that hand, is leaving me pretty concerned that some small amount of radioactive dust have been ingested.

Question #2. Am I putting myself at great risk by wearing this watch frequently? It seems that the crystal itself has either become so bombarded with radioactivity that it now also contains it, or that some amount of radioactive dust has nudged it's way in between the crystal and case intersection.

Question #3. Have I put myself at great risk my smelling the acrylic crystal, and by all the times I'd touched my face, etc. after touching the crystal?

Question #4. What options do I have in regards to restoring this watch (i.e. removing the radium, and applying super-luminova)? Not concerned about re-sale value, as it's a family heirloom and I have no plans to sell.


Thanks for any input. Photo attached at the bottom.
I'm relatively versed on the risks of radium, but would like to treat this as a possible exposure.
Any non-condescending and informative replies are greatly appreciated!!!
 
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Very little lume dust will have migrated to the outside of the crystal. I think you’re being extremely paranoid.

I’d say buy a proper Geiger if you’re unsure as I’d expect even small radium lume pips to register much more than 0.30 which is background in many areas.

Also, as far as I’m aware (but I’m no nuclear physicist, calling @Seaborg), crystals don’t become radioactive. Particles are radioactive, neighbouring material doesn’t become radioactive simply by being in close proximity to radium lume.
 
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"extremely paranoid." - Most likely, but I think that's the safer precaution than the other way around 👍🏼

Would the readings I'm getting be more likely to be due to tritium then? I actually think this counter is fairly precise.
The readings spike near the watch to those numbers, but vary very little sitting on a table for 10 minutes, or the like.

Right, I think more likely what's happened is the seal between the crystal and case has deteriorated, allowing some of the particles to migrate outside of the case. This would make sense as I was polishing this specific area, with intent to press the cloth as close to the intersection of the crystal and case as possible.
 
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Your counter will not measure anything from tritium especially after 60 years. You are seeing a low radium reading.

It’s unlikely you are at any risk as long as you keep the crystal on
 
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Whether your machine can detect tritium depends on what machine you have. It needs to detect beta radiation which tritium emits and not all Geiger counters do so.

Then you must consider the half lives. At c.65 years any tritium will have undergone 5+ half-lives so any radiation significantly reduced to less than 4% of what it was when new. So, I think it’s very unlikely you’re detecting tritium.

The question is, is it normal background variation or weak radium? Personally, I’ve never seen radium measure so low, but I’ve had a limited number of radium dialed watches.

My caveat to the above statement is I once had an almost identical situation. I had a kid 60’s Seamaster that displayed the same behaviour. Background in my house is generally 0.8-0.18 but when I placed the Geiger on the watch it usually spiked to around 0.30. The strange thing was the dial was marked with T’s. I never got to the bottom of it.

 
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You can also shine a UV light on it, if tritium it will glow and disappear in 10-20 sec, if radium it will glow with the light on it, but immediately disappear when light is turned off.
How do you date it to 1962-63? Do you have papers from sale?
Opening back and checking SN on movement will give better idea, but if youre nervous about smelling it maybe just try the UV experiment to minimize stress.
1962-63 was the approx time they switched from radium to tritium.
Nice watch BTW
 
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Your counter will not measure anything from tritium especially after 60 years. You are seeing a low radium reading.

It’s unlikely you are at any risk as long as you keep the crystal on
Thanks, very concerned though about the possibility that some of the lume dust has migrated to the outside of the crystal.
 
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Whether your machine can detect tritium depends on what machine you have. It needs to detect beta radiation which tritium emits and not all Geiger counters do so.

Then you must consider the half lives. At c.65 years any tritium will have undergone 5+ half-lives so any radiation significantly reduced to less than 4% of what it was when new. So, I think it’s very unlikely you’re detecting tritium.

The question is, is it normal background variation or weak radium? Personally, I’ve never seen radium measure so low, but I’ve had a limited number of radium dialed watches.

My caveat to the above statement is I once had an almost identical situation. I had a kid 60’s Seamaster that displayed the same behaviour. Background in my house is generally 0.8-0.18 but when I placed the Geiger on the watch it usually spiked to around 0.30. The strange thing was the dial was marked with T’s. I never got to the bottom of it.

This one does measure beta radiation.

I've tested it a bit more around the house. Waving it around the air for a few minutes, will occasionally get a single spike to 0.20 µSv/h, but very rarely.

When I wave it circularly around the crystal, it consistently jumps up to 0.20's-0.30's within about 1 minute.
Sometimes sooner than that.

Well, your experience with the seamaster gives me a bit of hope that it's just detecting tritium. How many years ago was that?
 
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It is not detecting tritium. Also, you are overthinking this to an absurd level. After reading many threads like these from people who are ridiculously and unscientifically paranoid about radium, I’ve come to the conclusion that people like you should not buy watches with radium lume. Your magical thinking will never let you be secure.

Don’t mess around, just sell it. In the future buy newer or no-lume watches.
 
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Very little lume dust will have migrated to the outside of the crystal. I think you’re being extremely paranoid.

I’d say buy a proper Geiger if you’re unsure as I’d expect even small radium lume pips to register much more than 0.30 which is background in many areas.

Also, as far as I’m aware (but I’m no nuclear physicist, calling @Seaborg), crystals don’t become radioactive. Particles are radioactive, neighbouring material doesn’t become radioactive simply by being in close proximity to radium lume.
I can't add anything about the lume, but that is a beautiful watch ! And a family watch on top of that! you really hit the lottery.
 
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It is not detecting tritium. Also, you are overthinking this to an absurd level. After reading many threads like these from people who are ridiculously and unscientifically paranoid about radium, I’ve come to the conclusion that people like you should not buy watches with radium lume. Your magical thinking will never let you be secure.

Don’t mess around, just sell it. In the future buy newer or no-lume watches.
I'll take the high road here, and not match the way you're speaking to me...

I don't consider this an absurd level, or overthinking at all.
Might you elaborate on what you mean by magical thinking?

I didn't purchase this watch, and wouldn't choose to purchase a watch with radium.
This watch was a family heirloom; all I have left of my grandfather.
It's very special to me, and I'm not planning on selling it.

Radium is a known danger.
I care a lot about my health.

If this is an overabundance of caution to you, that's fine.
I'm choosing to think critically, and make the wisest decision possible.

I'm simply taking whatever precautions I need to make sure my health is prioritized, whether that means being able to wear it without worry, or putting it in a display case, and looking to a well-regarded forum with people that might have any answers to my questions in forming that decision.

Thanks for the response.
 
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You can also shine a UV light on it, if tritium it will glow and disappear in 10-20 sec, if radium it will glow with the light on it, but immediately disappear when light is turned off.
How do you date it to 1962-63? Do you have papers from sale?
Opening back and checking SN on movement will give better idea, but if youre nervous about smelling it maybe just try the UV experiment to minimize stress.
1962-63 was the approx time they switched from radium to tritium.
Nice watch BTWI
I don't have a UV, but I have a very high lumen flashlight.
If I shine it on the dial for a few seconds, the lume will be very bright for around 1-2 seconds, very quickly tapering off to non-visible in about 5 seconds.

In pitch black, it will still glow for about 20 seconds.

So maybe tritium!
Thanks!
 
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I can't add anything about the lume, but that is a beautiful watch ! And a family watch on top of that! you really hit the lottery.
Thank you very much.
It's the watch that got me into watches.
Knowing that he wore it through many years of his life is what makes it so special.

Funny enough, I wore it around so freely when I first inherited it; I had no idea how rare and valuable these were at the time, and it wasn't until years later when I pulled it out of the drawer that my interests piqued, and I learned more about it.
 
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I don't have a UV, but I have a very high lumen flashlight.
If I shine it on the dial for a few seconds, the lume will be very bright for around 1-2 seconds, very quickly tapering off to non-visible in about 5 seconds.

In pitch black, it will still glow for about 20 seconds.

So maybe tritium!
Thanks!
no you need UV for this test you can buy relatively inexpensive on amazon
 
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no you need UV for this test you can buy relatively inexpensive on amazon
Thanks! I'll try that.
Would it be relatively the same for a high powered flashlight?
 
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I'll take the high road here, and not match the way you're speaking to me...

I don't consider this an absurd level, or overthinking at all.
Might you elaborate on what you mean by magical thinking?

I didn't purchase this watch, and wouldn't choose to purchase a watch with radium.
This watch was a family heirloom; all I have left of my grandfather.
It's very special to me, and I'm not planning on selling it.

Radium is a known danger.
I care a lot about my health.

If this is an overabundance of caution to you, that's fine.
I'm choosing to think critically, and make the wisest decision possible.

I'm simply taking whatever precautions I need to make sure my health is prioritized, whether that means being able to wear it without worry, or putting it in a display case, and looking to a well-regarded forum with people that might have any answers to my questions in forming that decision.

Thanks for the response.
That is not radium... That is tritium, 99.9% sure.

I would be careful of di-hydrogen monoxide though... So many deaths from this waste product of nuclear reactors, yet no government has put any protections in place!!!!
 
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That is not radium... That is tritium, 99.9% sure.

I would be careful of di-hydrogen monoxide though... So many deaths from this waste product of nuclear reactors, yet no government has put any protections in place!!!!
Thanks for the reply!
What makes you lean that way (towards tritium)?
 
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If I had to make a call, I’d say tritium as well.

  • The colour looks like tritium more than radium.
  • I still can’t recall a confirmed radium watch registering only 0.30.
  • if it continues to glow faintly (I’m a dark room) after being hit with a bright light, that again suggests tritium.
 
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Have you done a forum search on this topic?

I’d recommend you do. This subject has been asked and discussed many times and several threads have links to papers discussing the real risks of radium watches.
 
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Your counter will not measure anything from tritium especially after 60 years. You are seeing a low radium reading.

It’s unlikely you are at any risk as long as you keep the crystal on
I disagree. I think that looks and behaves like tritium. Tritium doesn’t decay to nothing in 60 years, it’s just way less potent than new. The half life is 13 years or so. 60/13 is roughly 4.6 so in fact there will be 4-5% remaining. Enough to read above background with the right equipment. Though that would be the bare dial. Omega changed over sometime around 1962 and was marking by ‘64 so this watch fits the timeframe.
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