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Chronographs classified as Chronometres.
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jsflog
·Thanks for feedback.
Very nice in did
Very nice in did
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Thaulows
·
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Mazoue
·So not a numbered movement and inscribed "Unadjusted". The opposite of what might be considered as the marks of a chronometre.
I think we can be fairly sure that the HPC watches were not chronometres as we've seen so many without serialised movements.
What I think we need to establish is whether the HPC watches had some higher quality parts compared to the standard movements (as I have heard suggested) or whether it was purely a marketing ploy.
The fact that we see so few HPC dials suggests to me that it was more than purely a marketing initiative. It could unfortunately be very difficult to prove this; not only is it difficult to actually identify any higher quality parts but those parts could have been swapped out over the last 60-70 years.
I suspect the only way we'll reach a conclusion is to find marketing material from the time referring to HPC watches.
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Moahunter
·Did a Google for "Universal Geneve H.P.C."
Quite a few results, too many to list here but found this one
http://www.watchespriceguide.com/wristwatchdetails.php?watchid=13852
Note in the description "... H.P. C.High Precision Chronometer designation by Universal for the watches tested at the Bureau de Controles des Chronometres."
But again we still have no independent evidence that the statement re. H.P.C. is true.
Quite a few results, too many to list here but found this one
http://www.watchespriceguide.com/wristwatchdetails.php?watchid=13852
Note in the description "... H.P. C.High Precision Chronometer designation by Universal for the watches tested at the Bureau de Controles des Chronometres."
But again we still have no independent evidence that the statement re. H.P.C. is true.
Edited:
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Mazoue
·Did a Google for "Universal Geneve H.P.C."
Quite a few results, too many to list here but found this one
http://www.watchespriceguide.com/wristwatchdetails.php?watchid=13852
Note in the description "... H.P. C.High Precision Chronometer designation by Universal for the watches tested at the Bureau de Controles des Chronometres."
But again we still have no independent evidence that the statement re. H.P.C. is true.
I think we've seen this wording in a number of Antiquorum catalogue descriptions. I suspect it was just lifted from Sala which uses the same description on page 220.
I personally think that it is very unlikely that the individual movements in HPC watches were tested as otherwise we would see serialised movements.
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Moahunter
·I think we've seen this wording in a number of Antiquorum catalogue descriptions. I suspect it was just lifted from Sala which uses the same description on page 220.
I personally think that it is very unlikely that the individual movements in HPC watches were tested as otherwise we would see serialised movements.
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bgrisso
·Here is another HPC dial Tri Compax with nothing special that I can see in regards to the movement....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-...249131?hash=item5b5d7937ab:g:RhgAAOSwiwxdbgG8
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-...249131?hash=item5b5d7937ab:g:RhgAAOSwiwxdbgG8
This website may earn commission from Ebay sales.
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Mazoue
·Given that most (all?) of the 'Chronometre' dials we see are on time only watches and that most of the 'HPC' dials are on chronographs, could it be that UG created its own internal standard of accuracy, HPC, for marketing purposes because its chronograph movements did not meet chronometre standards of time-keeping?
Just an idea.
Just an idea.
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bgrisso
·Given that most (all?) of the 'Chronometre' dials we see are on time only watches and that most of the 'HPC' dials are on chronographs, could it be that UG created its own internal standard of accuracy, HPC, for marketing purposes because its chronograph movements did not meet chronometre standards of time-keeping?
Just an idea.
I've come across many HPC time only examples. So I'm not sure that theory holds up. However I'm not sure I have ever seen a Chronometre chronograph, so you might have something there?
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Moahunter
·This latest H.P.C. fails on at least 2 marks of the normal chronometre, the movement has no Serial No. and it is marked as "Unadjusted".
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Mazoue
·This latest H.P.C. fails on at least 2 marks of the normal chronometre, the movement has no Serial No. and it is marked as "Unadjusted".
Yes, I think we can be certain that watches with HPC dials are not certified chronometres.
The question is, what are they?
Given that the HPC watches appear to be identical to their non-HPC equivalents, I don't think we'll answer that question by looking at examples of HPC watches. I think the only way that we'll shed any light on this is by finding advertising, literature, price lists etc from the time.
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bgrisso
·Yes, I think we can be certain that watches with HPC dials are not certified chronometres.
The question is, what are they?
Given that the HPC watches appear to be identical to their non-HPC equivalents, I don't think we'll answer that question by looking at examples of HPC watches. I think the only way that we'll shed any light on this is by finding advertising, literature, price lists etc from the time.
Exactly. The only reason HPC keeps getting linked to chronometer is because of Sala's statement, correct? This has not been verified by any other source or any UG materials? Mind you, I'm not suggesting Sala is wrong. I'm just saying it's unverified.
The add first posted in this thread is quite confusing because it uses the term chronometer, but only shows a time only and references two time only calibers, but then suggests that chronographs CAN also be chronometers. So that add and really this entire thread might not have anything to do with HPC. We really need booklet p101 I guess? How can we find this booklet, any ideas ?
Lastly, perhaps this dumb, but is it possible that HPC is just a double signature, meaning a business?
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gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorI suspect that someone has misunderstood/mistranslated "Bureau de Controles des Chronometres". I've done a search and can't find anything except it means "Chronometer control office" which is probably a general description not a specific testing agency.
The catalog description is close but not exactly correct with respect to the name of the Swiss agency. Obviously, this letter has nothing to do with Universal.
It is believed that the movements referred to in this letter were never actually sold by Omega. To my knowledge none of this serial number run have been seen in any Omega watch.
Omega stated in this 1950 catalog that Automatic Chronometers came either with an in-house certification or from “one of the official Swiss testing stations.”
Universal could have done the same thing. The HPC’s could have been the in-house ratings and the “Chronometers” were independently certified.
Of course we’ll need more information, but this is just to show how another manufacturer operated around the same time.
gatorcpa
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Burr
·Hello! Been doing some research on UG chronometre and stumbled on this thread and wanted to share there was a tri compax with chronometre on the dial and serial numbered movement that sold on Matthew Bain recently: https://www.matthewbaininc.com/watch-details/2977
Would this prove the content of the ad in the first post of this thread?
Would this prove the content of the ad in the first post of this thread?
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Mazoue
·Hello! Been doing some research on UG chronometre and stumbled on this thread and wanted to share there was a tri compax with chronometre on the dial and serial numbered movement that sold on Matthew Bain recently: https://www.matthewbaininc.com/watch-details/2977
Would this prove the content of the ad in the first post of this thread?
I don't believe I've seen another UG chronograph with a 'Chronometre' dial. The bridge is also marked 'unadjusted', which doesn't seem right. My understanding is that the whole point of chronometer certification is that the movement is adjusted to a certain degree of accuracy in a number of different positions.
I'm not a Tri-Compax expert but that looks like a 22297/3 rather than a 22297/2.
I'm rather doubtful about the whole thing.
