Following on the other recent thread about Chronometre on the dial (that particular watch did not have a serialized mvmt), then I assume it would be a similar problem if you have a HPC marked dial (time only), with this under the hood? We have to assume, what, that someone has swapped the dial or mvmt?
Or are the rules different for HPC dials vs Chronometre dials?
Following on the other recent thread about Chronometre on the dial (that particular watch did not have a serialized mvmt), then I assume it would be a similar problem if you have a HPC marked dial (time only), with this under the hood? We have to assume, what, that someone has swapped the dial or mvmt?
Or are the rules different for HPC dials vs Chronometre dials?
A movement marked unadjusted and if HPC means High precision.... might show a disconnect somewhere. Its only a 18,000 movement so its not like they are taking a higher bpm to mean more accuracy either.
Perhaps the clincher for the HPC designation would be an example of any additional paperwork that was supplied with the watch. Did this have any method for identifing the particular watch, like a serial number?
Movements marked “Unadjusted” were for the US market. Extra customs duties were assessed on each adjustment to movements imported from Switzerland in those days.
I would be surprised if any of the HPC watches were originally sold in the US.
I would also have concerns about any HPC marked watch that did not have a serial number on the movement.
Hope this helps,
gatorcpa
so my next question becomes, anytime you see an HPC or Chronometer designated dial, without a serialized mvmt, then someone has been creating frankens?
Here is another HPC example with no markings of any kind on the cal 263. Seller says NOS, unworn, but seems like wrong crown and strap is much later period UG, so perhaps shenanigans?
Have we established any rules at all to date on HPC ? I feel like we are lost in the weeds........
We have definitely not got to the bottom of this but here's what I think we do know:
- There is at least one UG advert showing a watch with 'HPC' on the dial (Sala P224) and therefore it's quite likely that watches left the factory with HPC dials
- Sala (P220) explains that it stands for High Precision Chronometer. I'm not aware of any additional proof that this is correct.
- We see HPC on chronographs and time-only watches.
- We only see 'Chronometre' on time-only watches. These all have serialised movements. There is a good thread here about verifying chronometres https://omegaforums.net/threads/universal-geneve-chronometre-how-to-verify.81943/
- What is clear is that HPC and 'Chronometre' dial designations did not mean the same thing. It was not simply that one came before the other; they co-existed.
- I am not aware of a single watch with an HPC dial that has the features that I would expect to see on a chronometre movement e.g. I've not seen an HPC watch with a bumper movement without 'unadjusted' on the bridge.
- Perhaps watches with HPC dials were sold in countries with less stringent regulations regarding chronometers? Or perhaps it was purely a marketing strategy and actually meant very little at all? What is puzzling however is how few HPC dials we see. If it meant very little and watches didn't have to pass stringent tests in order to have the HPC designation, then why not put it on more watches?
Here's an HPC Polerouter that I picked up recently. The Cal 138ss movement is completely standard without serial number etc.
From the catalogue of the '100 years UG' auction by AQ in 1994 (also interesting: Compax at top with leaf hands and double 45 (I have a double 45 as well but unfortunately without leaf hands)):
As I understand it, before COSC was formed in 1973, there were various rival local offices evaluating movements with differing approaches and levels of rigour.
Perhaps the watches marked 'chronometre' were evaluated in a different office from watches marked 'HPC' and hence a completely different approach was used?
HPC cannot surely mean nothing at all as otherwise why would we see it on so few watches and why is it used in UG advertising?
