Choosing a birth-year vintage Omega

marpro · Dec 22, 2020

Hi!
Currently looking for a birth-year Omega that's going to become a birthday gift for my father. Spent last couple of days on this forum (what a good source for the hobbyist!) and plenty of other resources across the web to grasp at least some basic knowledge about this wast topic. I do own a small collection of modern watches, have absolutely 0 knowledge nor experience with the vintage ones though. Found the following three watches within the local market, would you be so kind in helping me with picking one (or perhaps eliminating those from the list if that's the case?).
I would also need help in valuating those as they don't have a fixed price and are currently in bid, would love to avoid overspending on something that could be a not so great of an offer.
Thank you in advance if you spend time on reading this post 😀.

The year in question is 1961.
All of the serial and model numbers are read from the watch pictures and written by my, they're not stated in the offers.

1) Omega Constellation 1961, listed as "original state, never renewed".
movement: 561
movement serial number: 19062653 (just noticed this seems to be a 1962 sn. ?)
model: 14593 61SC (not sure about all the digits though, picture not of the greatest quality)
photos named: 'Constellation 1' to 'Constellation 5'
I've just noticed this is apparently a 1962 watch, despite being listed as 1961, so probably a no-go.

2) Omega Seamaster 1961, also listed as "in original state, never renewed". I spent a good hour looking for a watch with identical dial on the web and couldn't find one that would have the cooper-coloured hour markings shaped that way.
movement: 562
movement serial number: 18181101
model: 14770 1SC
photos named: 'Seamaster 1" to 'Seamaster 5'

3) Omega Constellation 1961, listed as "professionally renewed". Again, I was unable to find an Omega from that period with this same exact dial.
movement: 551
movement serial number: 18170706
model: 167.005
photos named: 'ConstellationRedone1" to 'ConstellationRedone4'.

In case you'd prefer to browse the photos via google photos, here's the link.

MtnMarine · Dec 22, 2020

I’m no expert by any means, but the Constellation looks to have a new dial/redial. I’m sure someone more educated on here will correct me if I’m wrong.

amcclell · Dec 22, 2020

The Seamaster also looks suspect with uneven spacing on the minute track. Look at 49, 51, 54, 56.

gbesq · Dec 22, 2020

I would pass on all three. Constellation number 1 (the 167.005) is a redial as nearly all black dial vintage Constellations are. Constellation number 2 (the 14393) has a dial that is in very poor condition. The hands on the Seamaster are generic replacements, I think, and I would need to see better photos of the dial to make a better assessment. Sorry to rain on your parade, but I would keep looking. It was a smart move on your part to seek advice before buying. I wish that inexperienced buyers would do so more often. I recently sold a vintage 1961 Seamaster on this forum that was in lovely shape. Wish we had crossed paths then!

amcclell · Dec 22, 2020

gbesq
I would pass on all three. Constellation number 1 (the 167.005) is a redial as nearly all black dial vintage Constellations are. Constellation number 2 (the 14393) has a dial that is in very poor condition. The hands on the Seamaster are generic replacements, I think, and I would need to see better photos of the dial to make a better assessment. Sorry to rain on your parade, but I would keep looking. It was a smart move on your part to seek advice before buying. I wish that inexperienced buyers would do so more often. I recently sold a vintage 1961 Seamaster on this forum that was in lovely shape. Wish we had crossed paths then!

The Seamaster is a bit of a puzzle - I agree the hands are incorrect for a Seamaster. With no lume on the dial or hands and the applied Omega, I am wondering if it began its life as a Geneve - just a thought.

Edward53 · Dec 22, 2020

It would help us to help you if we know what country you are in and what your approximate budget is. I.E. there's not much point in anyone pointing out eg US sales only watches if you are in the UK.

Dan S · Dec 22, 2020

I guess these are all watches from the same dealer. Once you start noticing questionable listings, it's best for a newbie just to move on and look for a better seller.

Shabbaz · Dec 22, 2020

You need a extract to know for sure if it's a 1961 watch. Not sure how important this is for you...

marpro · Dec 22, 2020

Thank you all for your kind replies, they're all highly appreciated!

gbesq
I would pass on all three. Constellation number 1 (the 167.005) is a redial as nearly all black dial vintage Constellations are. Constellation number 2 (the 14393) has a dial that is in very poor condition. The hands on the Seamaster are generic replacements, I think, and I would need to see better photos of the dial to make a better assessment. Sorry to rain on your parade, but I would keep looking. It was a smart move on your part to seek advice before buying. I wish that inexperienced buyers would do so more often. I recently sold a vintage 1961 Seamaster on this forum that was in lovely shape. Wish we had crossed paths then!

@gbesq that's great to know and a red flag for the private seller who claimed both his watches (the poor condition dial Constellation and the Seamaster) are both untouched and in original shape. The redone Constellation is from a dealer.

Edward53
It would help us to help you if we know what country you are in and what your approximate budget is. I.E. there's not much point in anyone pointing out eg US sales only watches if you are in the UK.

@Edward53 I am currently living in Poland, the EU market is therefore doable with the help of online payments and express shipment. I was thinking of up to 1500~$ for budget, not sure what can be considered a wise one for an Omega of that age in a decent shape? Any tips on where one could look for such watches? I noticed that some Chrono24 offers tend to be pricey for the quality offered.

Shabbaz
You need a extract to know for sure if it's a 1961 watch. Not sure how important this is for you...

@Shabbaz I see and haven't thought of that, thanks for clarifying. Thought that the serial number of the movement was enough to establish the year.

So to sum it up, what budget range should I be aiming for and where to look for the watches? Got 2~ months to make it work.

gbesq · Dec 22, 2020

A vintage Constellation, particularly one with a pie pan dial, is generally going to be more expensive than a vintage Seamaster of similar age and condition. Your best bet for finding a quality vintage Omega at a reasonable price is right here on the private watch sales forum, although narrowing it down to only a 1961 model will significantly limit what may be available now or in the future. I would also suggest that you look at Omega Geneve models. The late 1950s and early 1960s Geneves are beautiful watches. Below is a photo of my 1959 reference 2903. If you decide to continue shopping on sites like eBay and Chrono24, you should run prospective purchases by us before you pull the trigger. We can help you evaluate prospective purchases and suggest what a fair price would be for a given watch. Good luck.

marpro · Dec 22, 2020

gbesq
A vintage Constellation, particularly one with a pie pan dial, is generally going to be more expensive than a vintage Seamaster of similar age and condition. Your best bet for finding a quality vintage Omega at a reasonable price is right here on the private watch sales forum, although narrowing it down to only a 1961 model will significantly limit what may be available now or in the future. I would also suggest that you look at Omega Geneve models. The late 1950s and early 1960s Geneves are beautiful watches. Below is a photo of my 1959 reference 2903. If you decide to continue shopping on sites like eBay and Chrono24, you should run prospective purchases by us before you pull the trigger. We can help you evaluate prospective purchases and suggest what a fair price would be for a given watch. Good luck.

That truly is a beautiful watch!
I highly appreciate the fact that you experts do find the time to help out a newbie in a purchase like this. Learning along the way is an added value for myself, really enjoying this little quest. I'm also already sure that I'll be getting one for myself right after this first one.

Btw, should I completely avoid redials or are they acceptable in a scenario involving birth-year gift w watch?

gbesq · Dec 22, 2020

marpro
That truly is a beautiful watch!
I highly appreciate the fact that you experts do find the time to help out a newbie in a purchase like this. Learning along the way is an added value for myself, really enjoying this little quest. I'm also already sure that I'll be getting one for myself right after this first one.

Btw, should I completely avoid redials or are they acceptable in a scenario involving birth-year gift w watch?

There are two issues with redials. The first is that the quality of redials is highly variable depending upon who is doing the work. Some redials are very, very good. Some are, well ... not. And a poor redial will ruin the aesthetic of the watch. The second problem with redials is that ANY redial - good or not so good - will significantly devalue a vintage watch from a collectible perspective. Most collectors have no interest in acquiring a watch with a refinished dial. The primary reason to buy a vintage watch is to acquire an authentic timepiece in as close to its original condition as possible. Redials make that goal impossible since the dial represents the most valuable part of any vintage watch.

Dan S · Dec 22, 2020

marpro
Btw, should I completely avoid redials or are they acceptable in a scenario involving birth-year gift w watch?

This is entirely up to you, since you are the person who knows the recipient and his taste. Is he someone who prefers something shiny and new-looking, or would he prefer to own something with history that a collector would appreciate.'

gbesq · Dec 22, 2020

Dan S
This is entirely up to you, since you are the person who knows the recipient and his taste. Is he someone who prefers something shiny and new-looking, or would he prefer to own something with history that a collector would appreciate.'

Dan makes a good point. As I noted in my previous post, some redials are quite good. If you think that the recipient would value a vintage watch that looks as close to “new” as possible more than he would value authenticity, then you may want to consider a watch with a good quality redial.

marpro · Dec 23, 2020

Thank you both for the explanation, it definitely makes sense now. Currently collecting a list of links with sales offers that look promising, will be posting them in bulk.

marpro · Dec 23, 2020

Did a research on Chrono24 for now, ebay will follow if none of these watches will be considered worth purchasing.
I'll split the links to the ones that either look as in original shape (or seller claims so in the offer) and the ones that are obvious redials to perhaps assess the quality there - I am pretty sure my father will appreciate a good looking original state just as much as a wisely done redial. The ones I am trying to avoid are originals in poor shape.

I. Original state (or claimed 😀)

1. Genève 2903-17, cal. 268, link
2. Seamaster 14390-61-SC, cal. 285, pictures of poor quality, link
3. Constellation Chronometer 14381 11SC, cal. 551, appears to be in a very good state(?), link
4. Constellation Chronometer 14393 9 SC, cal. 561, same as above for the watch state, link

II. Redials (or what I thought are ones)
1. Seamaster 14389 62 CSP, cal. 269, link
2. Seamaster 14701 61 SC, cal. 562, looks nothing like the 'Stardust' dials I found googling. Writing seems decent though? link
3. 2910-2 SC, cal. 285, would make an easy purchase as I found it also on a polish website, link
4. Seamaster linen dial 14390-61-SC, cal. 285 (looks too good, described as original though), cal. 285, link

gbesq · Dec 23, 2020

I’ll look at these as soon as I can and post comments. In the meantime, I’m sure others will chime in with their opinions.

amcclell · Dec 23, 2020

You may have already done this but if not, you could put up a post in the WTB (wanted to buy) section of this forum. Good luck

Dan S · Dec 23, 2020

marpro
Did a research on Chrono24 for now, ebay will follow if none of these watches will be considered worth purchasing.
I'll split the links to the ones that either look as in original shape (or seller claims so in the offer) and the ones that are obvious redials to perhaps assess the quality there - I am pretty sure my father will appreciate a good looking original state just as much as a wisely done redial. The ones I am trying to avoid are originals in poor shape.

I. Original state (or claimed 😀)

1. Genève 2903-17, cal. 268, link
2. Seamaster 14390-61-SC, cal. 285, pictures of poor quality, link
3. Constellation Chronometer 14381 11SC, cal. 551, appears to be in a very good state(?), link
4. Constellation Chronometer 14393 9 SC, cal. 561, same as above for the watch state, link

II. Redials (or what I thought are ones)
1. Seamaster 14389 62 CSP, cal. 269, link
2. Seamaster 14701 61 SC, cal. 562, looks nothing like the 'Stardust' dials I found googling. Writing seems decent though? link
3. 2910-2 SC, cal. 285, would make an easy purchase as I found it also on a polish website, link
4. Seamaster linen dial 14390-61-SC, cal. 285 (looks too good, described as original though), cal. 285, link

gbesq
I’ll look at these as soon as I can and post comments. In the meantime, I’m sure others will chime in with their opinions.

I would browse through some photos if they were posted here. But eight watches is a lot to ask IMO.

marpro · Dec 23, 2020

Dan S
I would browse through some photos if they were posted here. But eight watches is a lot to ask IMO.

Thanks for pointing that out, thought I did a decent job narrowing from the 180 I found to decent-looking 8, but I totally get what you're saying. I do appreciate the fact you hobbyists / experts find time to help out strangers on a forum. Are there paid services of this kind, which would help inexperienced buyers?
I also thought chrono24 pictures are easier to browse through, will reupload them here or to a single google photos link for easier scrolling from mobile.

Choosing a birth-year vintage Omega

marpro

MtnMarine

amcclell

gbesq

amcclell

Edward53

Dan S

Shabbaz

marpro

gbesq

marpro

gbesq

Dan S

gbesq

marpro

marpro

gbesq

amcclell

Dan S

marpro

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