(Cars) First new Bently Blower in 90 years ...

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Using CT to reverse engineer mechanical functional models is apparently a well accepted and highly accurate modern technique (and certainly has many benefits). Why is it so wrong for a business that has the know-how let it be known? To draw a parallel : you are a business, and you advertise all your best practices and techniques here (and likely elsewhere) : you market yourself and all the cool and correct things you do (and certainly that draws customers). So, why the grudge with Bently (or in your case, Omega)? (thats a rhetorical question good Sir, please dont answer 馃槈 ).

I鈥檝e never said it was wrong for them to market themselves, as all brands do so. The thing I take issue with is the false narrative that this technology enabled them to reverse engineer something they already have engineering for.

Is it cool? Yes. Was it required to do the job? No.

Cheers, Al
 
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MRC MRC
I too started on a drawing board but in early 1970s got into CAD program development. In the 1970s and well into the '80s the costs of computer, graphics terminal, pen-plotter and programs were several tens of the cost of employing just one draughtsman. In a very small number of cases the CAD system could pay for itself but for most of our customers the value was in showing to their customers how progressive they were. Marketing in other words.

Yes, the old mainframe based systems were very expensive, so when my company adopted CAD, it wasn鈥檛 until there was a reasonably good PC based system. I recall opening a 1 mb file of a Geneva drive, and it taking 30 minutes just to open the file...those were the days.
 
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Yes, the old mainframe based systems were very expensive, so when my company adopted CAD, it wasn鈥檛 until there was a reasonably good PC based system. I recall opening a 1 mb file of a Geneva drive, and it taking 30 minutes just to open the file...those were the days.
Also being 20+ minutes into a pen plot and having the pen dry out...
 
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Just feast your eyes out on this...

(some selected pics, more in the link, here the back-story)...


Thanks for posting this, very interesting. I was lucky enough to work on and around similar cars in the 80s; here鈥檚 a similar, non-supercharged, original Bentley.

 
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Thanks for posting this, very interesting. I was lucky enough to work on and around similar cars in the 80s; here鈥檚 a similar, non-supercharged, original Bentley.


I think they've all gone to bed. In the meantime let me say that's a remarkable vehicle. New to me. The mixture of the big bentley eyes with open cockpit and large diameter wheels is pretty impressive.
 
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The thing I take issue with is the false narrative that this technology enabled them to reverse engineer something they already have engineering for.

Fair enough. Please note : the only reason for my continued dialog in this thread is not to do with Omega per se, but rather to do with the fact that whenever anyone uses CT to reverse engineer 70~100 year old mechanical things, and mentions it, it gets panned as 'marketing gobbledygook' by default. I have not mentioned the 321 at all...thats something that you still bring up for some reason.

Here it was used to look into an almost rotted-to-powder 2000 year old mechanical model (much like a watch) to see the inner mechanisms and symbols not able to be seen normally.

Was it required to do the job? No.

Maybe, maybe not. As far as we have been told, Breguet(and not Omega) had swallowed Lemania and were producing 321 movements(and parts?), and where and in what form the IP for old movements exists is not clear, I see no point to speculare here. I do not claim to know the inner workings of the swatch group and their separate entities/politics within/etc etc etc and I dont see the point to speculate on that either. Regardless of that, on the topic of Omega flaunting this technology just for marketing : if you recall they did use this method to recreate the Trilogy watches (the teaser adverts were timelapsed videos moving through the 'slices' of a CT scan, from bottom to top if the watch were laid on a table, of each watch). They also used this to recreate the 105.012-65 case/pushers/caseback(/dial?) used in the Apollo 50th watches and the platnum 321, and soon-to-be-new-moonwatch, and most likely the same for the steel 321 (new Ed White). But they undoubtedly had all the old handdrawn engineering drawings for all these parts from the 50s/60s so by this logic, they must have done this repeatedly on several occasions for several watches unnecessarily 'just for marketing'. I also don't recall anyone complaining about that then.

(Edit: from my own experience: when the engineering team did something worthy of being marketed, it was totally flaunted, but not the other way around i.e. the marketing department would not (nor have the capability to) dictate practices to be used by engineering to do their jobs better and more effictively. YMMV.)

Anyhow. This horse is dead. Back to cars!
Edited:
 
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My agenda already has a blocker for the Goodwood Revival meeting 2021. Can't wait to see them in action again 馃グ
 
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Fair enough. Please note : the only reason for my continued dialog in this thread is not to do with Omega per se, but rather to do with the fact that whenever anyone uses CT to reverse engineer 70~100 year old mechanical things, and mentions it, it gets panned as 'marketing gobbledygook' by default. I have not mentioned the 321 at all...thats something that you still bring up for some reason.

Standy was the one that brought up the 321. But to address the accusation being made here, I've said repeatedly that I have no idea what purpose these scans were for this car, and that I could even see it being of some use in modelling body panels. Given the age of this car and the fact it's a one off being reproduced, it makes more sense that this technology could be of benefit. On a watch that Omega made many thousands of copies of, and a movement that was being produced up until recently, this is not the same situation obviously.

it was used to look into an almost rotted-to-powder 2000 year old mechanical model (much like a watch) to see the inner mechanisms and symbols not able to be seen normally.

In this case, I can see it being a valuable tool, and I suspect this may be where the Omega marketing team got the idea from.

Maybe, maybe not. As far as we have been told, Breguet(and not Omega) had swallowed Lemania and were producing 321 movements(and parts?), and where and in what form the IP for old movements exists is not clear, I see no point to speculare here. I do not claim to know the inner workings of the swatch group and their separate entities/politics within/etc etc etc and I dont see the point to speculate on that either.

Well, by taking the position that it was needed, as you have throughout, you are speculating. So can we admit that we are both speculating?

Regardless of that, on the topic of Omega flaunting this technology just for marketing : if you recall they did use this method to recreate the Trilogy watches (the teaser adverts were timelapsed videos moving through the 'slices' of a CT scan, from bottom to top if the watch were laid on a table, of each watch). They also used this to recreate the 105.012-65 case/pushers/caseback(/dial?) used in the Apollo 50th watches and the platnum 321, and soon-to-be-new-moonwatch, and most likely the same for the steel 321 (new Ed White). But they undoubtedly had all the old handdrawn engineering drawings for all these parts from the 50s/60s so by this logic, they must have done this repeatedly on several occasions for several watches unnecessarily 'just for marketing'. I also don't recall anyone complaining about that then.

Again you say they used this technology to recreate the Trilogy watches. Your entire argument here is based on the speculation that this was done for an engineering purpose, and not just as pure marketing. With marketing budgets as they are for these luxury brands, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if this had nothing to do with engineering at all, and was simply done purely for marketing purposes. To make scans and video teasers. If you look at the animated video that is the subject of another thread here right now (it was updated from a 2016 version apparently) Omega spends a crap ton on marketing...unless you are going to claim that was engineering too. 馃槈

Anyhow. This horse is dead. Back to cars!

Sure...
 
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Standy was the one that brought up the 321.

Sure. And then your subsequent several messages riffed off the 321 response. My responses to Standy (and you) was about this technique in general, and how it garners so much scorn here.


But to address the accusation being made here, I've said repeatedly that I have no idea what purpose these scans were for this car, and that I could even see it being of some use in modelling body panels. Given the age of this car and the fact it's a one off being reproduced, it makes more sense that this technology could be of benefit. On a watch that Omega made many thousands of copies of, and a movement that was being produced up until recently, this is not the same situation obviously.

And my response to that was ...

as-built parts can differ to as-designed parts. An already-working model is thus able to be recreated, easily, by this technique into a digital model that actually works

... which makes sense (to me), as this particular car was a prototype-like design built for a race where the intention was to increase power output, and it was not a well designed production car.


Again you say they used this technology to recreate the Trilogy watches. Your entire argument here is based on the speculation that this was done for an engineering purpose

My argument is based on experience that the opposite is true : engineering does engineering as engineering sees fit to do the best job, as cost efficiently and easily and with the best results, and if marketing can jump onto any of how engineering decided to engineer, then it will. Your argument is based on marketing knowing better how to do specific engineering than the engineers themselves, and forcing engineering to engineer accordingly (for marketing sake). Like I said, YMMV, but in my experience that is not the case. Sure it鈥檚 all speculation, I don鈥檛 work for any of these brands and don鈥檛 intend to.
 
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Your argument is based on marketing knowing better how to do specific engineering than the engineers themselves, and forcing engineering to engineer accordingly (for marketing sake).

No, clearly that is not my argument at all...
 
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Engineers! We non-engineers always suspected you talked like this in your off hours. To think you guys are doing this for fun. 馃榾

You're losing @rob#1...
 
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Engineers! We non-engineers always suspected you talked like this in your off hours. To think you guys are doing this for fun. 馃榾

You're losing @rob#1...

I wouldn鈥檛 call it fun 馃槜
 
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Can I hijack your thread? About that new 321, as you know, I am a fan. But I find it ironic that the new 321 is winning in the Fratellowatches final round when so many people say they dislike reissues/homages.
 
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Can I hijack your thread? About that new 321, as you know, I am a fan. But I find it ironic that the new 321 is winning in the Fratellowatches final round when so many people say they dislike reissues/homages.

Hijack away, I own nothing, this thread was intended to be about a beautifully reproduced car, but these things have a life of their own. To give my 2c : I speculate that due to there being no engineering department at Fratello (well, there鈥檚 Mike, but that鈥檚 just his day-job) who are dictated how to do their jobs by the marketing department (certainly RJ would relish such absolute power...best drugs ever), the marketing department thus failed completely in determining the outcome, and the outcome is actually reader-base-dependent only...and said reader-base consists of the same +- 2000 die-hard fans who have voted all along through every round...and it鈥檚 this group of die-hards who are the victims of the brainwashing-plot-of-evil of the omega-scanning-gobbledygook, hence loving the new 321 only 馃槤 馃槤馃槤

Seriously though, I voted 321 because I鈥檓 tired of the stupid dog, the platinum 321 was excluded from the polls (the bastards), and most people have no clue how lovely the moonshine goldielocks is and have not had the luck of handling it in the flesh to allow them to get over their gold-phobia. Plus Ed Whites are simply nice watches and great on wrist (also this one is one of the newest watches, so has some recency-bias points) 馃憤
 
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...the outcome is actually reader-base-dependent only...and said reader-base consists of the same +- 2000 die-hard fans who have voted all along through every round...and it鈥檚 this group of die-hards who are the victims of the brainwashing-plot-of-evil of the omega-scanning-gobbledygook, hence loving the new 321 only 馃槤 馃槤馃槤

Maybe there's hope for enginers making sense afterall.

Seriously though, I voted 321 because I鈥檓 tired of the stupid dog, the platinum 321 was excluded from the polls (the bastards),

I think you're are lucky the OF doesn't know your thread has been hijacked and is discussing the contest. "Stupid dog" could get your posts reduced back down to one. I like the Snoopy III for what it attempted to do and achieved. Close one eye and ignore the "stupid dog" on the dial and it's a nice watch, although i wish the blue was a shade darker.

and most people have no clue how lovely the moonshine goldielocks is and have not had the luck of handling it in the flesh to allow them to get over their gold-phobia. Plus Ed Whites are simply nice watches great on wrist 馃憤

I was surprised to see the moonshine not do better. I think the first round with RJ was stacked against it. Some good watches and only one could go through.

I would love to get a new ED White even ove a vintage 105.003 but i still find it weird to see that it is taking top spot.


Oh, and nice car.
 
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flw flw
The original James Bond car.
More like John Steed.
Options include a mini fridge loaded with Champagne and Caviar for those occasions when you pretend the motor overheated so you can pull over in some wooded area with Mrs Peel till it cools down.
 
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Engineers! We non-engineers always suspected you talked like this in your off hours. To think you guys are doing this for fun. 馃榾
Nah, most engineers don't actually like talking to other people 馃榿
 
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Nah, most engineers don't actually like talking to other people 馃榿

All that scanning of old stuff to make new stuff, surprised they have any time to talk nowadays 馃檮
Marketing team are always up for a chat......
 
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Could some of the parts have been 3D scanned in order to reproduce them by means of powder metallurgy?