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Can The 2021 Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch Professional Still Be Considered A Moonwatch?

cvalue13
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Archer Archer
Omega is the maker of said watches, so if they call it a Moonwatch, it's a Moonwatch.

Bizcut1 Bizcut1
Thus ends the lesson.

Sure “moonwatch” is in one sense a proper noun employed by Omega. But saying “the marketing term ‘moonwatch’ is a marketing term” is a pretty uninteresting platitude.

Because “moonwatch” is also an adjective, and that’s what some here are discussing: regardless of Omega’s proper noun, does the adjective still hold?

Archer Archer
If a group of watch collectors and enthusiasts agree with that or not is immaterial to the name of the watch given by the company that makes the watches and names them

I couldn’t disagree more.

Omega’s marketing team only *calls* it a moonwatch because there’s a story out in the real world that connects some characteristic of value to the watch in the minds of buyers.

In other words, it’s only because the adjective sense of “moonwatch” that Omega marketing clings to its proper noun. Not the other way around.

And so, it’s entirely relevant that a “group of watch collectors and enthusiasts” are here musing over whether or how much the adjective “moonwatch” continues to apply, despite Omega’s labels.

And that discussion between enthusiasts could be viewed even as important, precisely because Omega’s marketing could be inclined to at some point stretch its proper noun too far for their sensibilities:

We might pay Omega a lot for a watch that’s actually been on the moon;

We may pay Omega less but still a lot for a watch that was right next to it on the production line;

… on the same production line in the same year;

… on a different production line a different year;

… made differently altogether;

… a potato labeled “moonwatch.”

Omega’s marketing term “moonwatch” is intended to bootstrap the value of each former step into the latter step.

When enthusiasts here are discussing whether that story out in the real world does - as buyers - sufficiently connect to a given watch, it’s not that they’re ignorant that “moonwatch” is a marketing term, it’s instead that they’re putting a critical eye on that marketing attempt.

 
Archer
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Navel gazing 101 in session. 😉

Perhaps it's because the connection to the moon doesn't mean a lot to me personally and why I own and like this watch, that I find these discussions very obtuse.

For me the reasons why it's called a Moonwatch by Omega are irrelevant to the fact that Omega calls it one. It's a name given to a watch. Are we going to discuss if the Seamaster is really the master of the sea?

Probably, at some point...😁
 
cvalue13
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Archer Archer
Navel gazing 101 in session. 😉

To be fair, people were somewhat obviously having a discussion that started something like: despite what Omega calls it…

To which your contribution is “but Omega calls it…”

I suppose you’re right that such a contribution probably didn’t really deserve a response…

Archer Archer
For me the reasons why it's called a Moonwatch by Omega are irrelevant to the fact that Omega calls it one.

… You’re right, the conversation being had IS essentially irrelevant to the topic that you repetitively raise: the fact Omega calls it a moonwatch.

We get it! Omega calls it a moonwatch! No one was disagreeing with that non sequitur platitude.

Archer Archer
Perhaps it's because the connection to the moon doesn't mean a lot to me personally and why I own and like this watch, that I find these discussions very obtuse.

What seems most “obtuse” is actively injecting non sequiter platitudes into a discussion you purport to not care about. 👎

Perhaps a thread about a topic you find so uninteresting would be better avoided by you? 👍
 
Archer
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cvalue13 cvalue13
To be fair, people were somewhat obviously having a discussion that started something like: despite what Omega calls it…

To which your contribution is “but Omega calls it…”

I suppose you’re right that such a contribution probably didn’t really deserve a response…



… You’re right, the conversation being had IS essentially irrelevant to the topic that you repetitively raise: the fact Omega calls it a moonwatch.

We get it! Omega calls it a moonwatch! No one was disagreeing with that non sequitur platitude.



What seems most “obtuse” is actively injecting non sequiter platitudes into a discussion you purport to not care about. 👎

Perhaps a thread about a topic you find so uninteresting would be better avoided by you? 👍

Sorry if my opinions offend you so much, but you appear to be easily offended by pretty much anything I say. I entered this discussion to agree with someone who already made this point, so just adding my voice.

If it bothers you, you don't need to read my posts.

Cheers, Al
 
Nobel Prize
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Nobody is denying the fact that the Speedmaster Proffesional ( its actual name) was in the moon. So where a number of other watches, including Rolex GMT.

the explorer was in Everest…. Kind of.

The sea dweller has been in the sea.

Is the term Moonwatch relevant to the watch? Yes, that’s why it resonates so much as a marketing term. But none of the moonwatches in circulation have been to the moon ( maybe 1 or 2). Only a very relative few have been there so really, it’s like wearing an astronaut suit and calling yourself an astronaut or a “moon man”.

IT is Marketing.

is the term as a definition unique to this watch?, no

is any watch on the line of the Speedmaster Proffesional a moonwatch? Yes, as long as it is marketed that way. Just like every explorer, sea dweller, Daytona, sea master, railmaster etc. Regardless of their true function or ownership.

A Paul Newman Daytona is a Paul Newman Daytona but it is not Paul Newmans’ Daytona. ( unless it was of course)

It is a great watch, don’t be offended if it is also a great marketing tool.
 
cvalue13
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But none of the moonwatches in circulation have been to the moon ( maybe 1 or 2). Only a very relative few have been there so really, it’s like wearing an astronaut suit and calling yourself an astronaut or a “moon man”.

That seems an unfair and silly characterization of the discussion going on here, or why people value the association of the speedmaster with the space program.

It’s obvious that people who buy Audi Quattro B2s from 1985 don’t think they themselves are rally car champions, or that the car they purchased won a race; instead, they’re drawn to the idea of having a production car that is [very nearly][could have been] one of the famed rally cars.

I’m confused why your post seems to imply that anyone here is confused regarding whether their Speedmaster has been to the moon, or that they’re an astronaut because they have a Speedmaster.

Nobel Prize Nobel Prize
is any watch on the line of the Speedmaster Proffesional a moonwatch? Yes, as long as it is marketed that way.

Again, to the extent this is true it’s only nominally true, in the context of this discussion.

Is a 2021 Audi Q7 also a “Quattro”? Of course - because that’s what Audi calls it as a noun for its marketing (and function designation).

But that little relevance to a discussion of a B2 rally head saying to another B2 head: “do you think a 2021 Q7 is the type of ‘Quattro’ we care about as rally history Audi enthusiasts?”

To which you inject: “if Audi calls it a quattro it’s a quattro”

upload_2021-10-3_13-20-38.gif
 
cvalue13
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Archer Archer
Sorry if my opinions offend you so much, but you appear to be easily offended by pretty much anything I say. I entered this discussion to agree with someone who already made this point, so just adding my voice.

If it bothers you, you don't need to read my posts.

Cheers, Al

I’m not offended, I’m just not shy to call out your feigned ignorance deployed to be smug.

Me: despite Audi’s marketing term, do we think the 2021 Q7 is they type of ‘Quattro’ we care about as rally history enthusiasts?

Archer: ‘Quattro’ is a marketing term

Me: obviously - but we’re instead talking about whether the 2021 Q7 is the type of Quattro of interest to rally history enthusiasts

Archer: I don’t see what rally history has to do with whether the Q7 is or is not a quattro; I don’t even like rally history

upload_2021-10-3_13-38-30.gif
 
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cvalue13 cvalue13
That seems an unfair and silly characterization of the discussion going on here, or why people value the association of the speedmaster with the space program.

It’s obvious that people who buy Audi Quattro B2s from 1985 don’t think they themselves are rally car champions, or that the car they purchased won a race; instead, they’re drawn to the idea of having a production car that is [very nearly][could have been] one of the famed rally cars.

I’m confused why your post seems to imply that anyone here is confused regarding whether their Speedmaster has been to the moon, or that they’re an astronaut because they have a Speedmaster.



Again, to the extent this is true it’s only nominally true, in the context of this discussion.

Is a 2021 Audi Q7 also a “Quattro”? Of course - because that’s what Audi calls it as a noun for its marketing (and function designation).

But that little relevance to a discussion of a B2 rally head saying to another B2 head: “do you think a 2021 Q7 is the type of ‘Quattro’ we care about as rally history Audi enthusiasts?”

To which you inject: “if Audi calls it a quattro it’s a quattro”

upload_2021-10-3_13-20-38.gif

Perhaps I am overstating a little for the sake of making a point. Sorry for that.

Within the hyperbole and my smart ass comments there is a point to be made because, to your point, why ask if a 2021 moonwatch is a moonwatch? I suppose it would depend on the definition of “moonwatch” and that is, either a watch that has been to the moon. In which case no. Or a watch marketed as moonwatch because it is part of a lineage of watches that went to the moon…in which case yes.

In a way you make my point for me.

i do stand corrected in tone though.
 
cvalue13
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Perhaps I am overstating a little for the sake of making a point. Sorry for that…

…In a way you make my point for me….

i do stand corrected in tone though.

All fair enough - and apologies my own tone in response, which was “overspray” from other canvasses

Returning then to the topic given your good point RE why care about a 2021 moonwatch

Me personally, I’m unclear how the newest Speedmaster hasn’t become extra-tangential to the adjective “moonwatch” (regardless if Omega ascribes the marketing noun to it).

To be fair, the “moonwatch” adjective seems to not anymore be so literal about only the moon missions proper, so much as to act as short hand for something more like “watch preferred and approved by NASA for manned space missions, with a history of same even going back to the moon missions.”

In that broader sense, for the newest caliber I’m not educated on it’s bona fides - has NASA deployed them to astronauts? Have any been to space? On an EVA? Has NASA even confirmed if it will do any of those thing?
 
Omegafanman
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cvalue13 cvalue13
All fair enough - and apologies my own tone in response, which was “overspray” from other canvasses

Returning then to the topic given your good point RE why care about a 2021 moonwatch

Me personally, I’m unclear how the newest Speedmaster hasn’t become extra-tangential to the adjective “moonwatch” (regardless if Omega ascribes the marketing noun to it).

To be fair, the “moonwatch” adjective seems to not anymore be so literal about only the moon missions proper, so much as to act as short hand for something more like “watch preferred and approved by NASA for manned space missions, with a history of same even going back to the moon missions.”

In that broader sense, for the newest caliber I’m not educated on it’s bona fides - has NASA deployed them to astronauts? Have any been to space? On an EVA? Has NASA even confirmed if it will do any of those thing?

Space = Yes
Russian ESA supply missions = Probably
Russian EVA = possibly
NASA approved = Probably / will be like the X33
Worn on a NASA EVA = Very unlikely
 
Archer
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cvalue13 cvalue13
I’m not offended, I’m just not shy to call out your feigned ignorance deployed to be smug.

There's no ignorance involved, feigned or otherwise, on my part. The only reason it's referred to as a Moonwatch is because Omega calls it that. They are, by definition as the makers of these watches, the sole entity that will determine if they are called a Moonwatch or not.

Again, it is irrelevant if a very small group of enthusiasts don't agree, because in practical terms the disagreement will mean absolutely nothing. The name won't change that Omega gives the watch, the vast majority of people who buy the watch will not disagree, and it will be only a very few overly pedantic people who will even question it, let alone disagree with it.

There have been far less "moonwatchy" Moonwatches put out by Omega in the past that have not really generated the sort of angst that this one has amongst collectors. So the debate over this one, which is arguably much more of a Moonwatch in design than many others that Omega calls Moonwatches and no one seems to care about, seems odd.

I know this thing is revered by some collectors for this connection, but this was just an off the shelf watch that passed (meaning failed the least) the tests that NASA put them through before they used them in space program. It wasn't purposely built to be a part of NASA gear (even though some people actually do believe it was).

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Within the hyperbole and my smart ass comments there is a point to be made because, to your point, why ask if a 2021 moonwatch is a moonwatch? I suppose it would depend on the definition of “moonwatch” and that is, either a watch that has been to the moon. In which case no. Or a watch marketed as moonwatch because it is part of a lineage of watches that went to the moon…in which case yes.

Exactly.
 
cvalue13
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Omegafanman Omegafanman
Space = Yes

I suppose most folks are keen on the NASA connection/approval/endorsement - including Omega!

I believe you’re here talking about the Blue Origin flight? Are there other known instances of the new watch being in space aside from the Blue Origin flight?

But otherwise, I *think* I’m understanding correctly that so far NASA hasn’t issued these watches to it’s folks, nor has NASA taken them up as one of the issued timekeepers? Is that right?

Not that it matters so much, since that may all change at any time - but I’m not finding much detail (and Robert’s piece only mentions blue origin).
 
Dan S
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As usual, I couldn't make it through the OP's article. What are we talking about here? Anything interesting? 😁
 
cvalue13
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Dan S Dan S
As usual, I couldn't make it through the OP's article. What are we talking about here? Anything interesting? 😁

Are you a fan of Audi Quattros? 😁
 
Dan S
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cvalue13 cvalue13
Are you a fan of Audi Quattros? 😁

No, but my wife has a Q7. I have no idea why she bought that thing. Way too big for her, and not capable enough off-road.
 
Omegafanman
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cvalue13 cvalue13
I suppose most folks are keen on the NASA connection/approval/endorsement - including Omega!

I believe you’re here talking about the Blue Origin flight? Are there other known instances of the new watch being in space aside from the Blue Origin flight?

But otherwise, I *think* I’m understanding correctly that so far NASA hasn’t issued these watches to it’s folks, nor has NASA taken them up as one of the issued timekeepers? Is that right?

Not that it matters so much, since that may all change at any time - but I’m not finding much detail (and Robert’s piece only mentions blue origin).

=Yes ;0)
 
ducatiti
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I'll check in again after a year or two to see if we have come to conclusion 😀

But isn't the key here if the 3861 certified to be one thus the change of wording on the caseback? Sorry if I missed it.
 
D
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ducatiti ducatiti
But isn't the key here if the 3861 certified to be one thus the change of wording on the caseback? Sorry if I missed it.

Oh, the humanity of it all🙁
 
D
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cvalue13 cvalue13
I suppose most folks are keen on the NASA connection/approval/endorsement - including Omega!

I believe you’re here talking about the Blue Origin flight? Are there other known instances of the new watch being in space aside from the Blue Origin flight?

But otherwise, I *think* I’m understanding correctly that so far NASA hasn’t issued these watches to it’s folks, nor has NASA taken them up as one of the issued timekeepers? Is that right?

Not that it matters so much, since that may all change at any time - but I’m not finding much detail (and Robert’s piece only mentions blue origin).

In a sense, Omega needs to have the Moonwatch continuum to fullfil commercial realities however they deem fit to wangle it.
 
D
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cvalue13 cvalue13
All fair enough - and apologies my own tone in response, which was “overspray” from other canvasses

Returning then to the topic given your good point RE why care about a 2021 moonwatch

Me personally, I’m unclear how the newest Speedmaster hasn’t become extra-tangential to the adjective “moonwatch” (regardless if Omega ascribes the marketing noun to it).

To be fair, the “moonwatch” adjective seems to not anymore be so literal about only the moon missions proper, so much as to act as short hand for something more like “watch preferred and approved by NASA for manned space missions, with a history of same even going back to the moon missions.”

In that broader sense, for the newest caliber I’m not educated on it’s bona fides - has NASA deployed them to astronauts? Have any been to space? On an EVA? Has NASA even confirmed if it will do any of those thing?

EVAs, I missed that on my list of criterior🤦
The amended list is as follows.
Approved for EVAs.
Manual wind movement.
Hesalite crystal.
No other complication other than a Chronograph in the same type as the original Moonwatch👎
 
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