Can The 2021 Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch Professional Still Be Considered A Moonwatch?

cvalue13 · Oct 1, 2021

PS: for reasons noted above, I’ve always suspected the NASA selected the watch they did primarily for the robustness of the chronograph and the chronograph function itself, with little regard for the actual time-telling function.

Because all else being equal, space travel benefits from a 24hr time telling model (which is why NASA/HOUSTON use it, as well as other aviation, medicine, etc., where accuracy and clarity are paramount), and further a double-twelve model primarily assumes it’s accuracy from the position of earth, with night/day itself performing part of the watch’s job. Whereas on ISS, there are ~32 sunrises/sunsets in each 24hr period - disorienting!

Archer · Oct 1, 2021

cvalue13
Looks like we have a nerdy watch disagreement on deck - which I hope is what we all are here for.

@Archer any view from the “inside”?

Gravity would be more in play with very small wrist movements, where it would have less involvement in winding if the majority of the wrist movements were larger.

For anyone who has worn a 7750 based watch, and had the "wobble" of the rotor going in the other direction, you know it only takes a small flick of the wrist to wind the watch with the rotor, and for the kickback free spinning to happen.

Not having spent any time or done any experiments in micro-gravity, I can't offer anything but my opinion, but I don't believe gravity would be a significant part of winding personally.

gbesq · Oct 1, 2021

I suspect that the real reason that NASA selected the Speedmaster for its manned missions had little do do with the hesalite crystal or the manual wind caliber. It memory serves, it was simply the only watch submitted that was still standing when the tests were completed. Had it been an automatic model and/or had a sapphire crystal, it might still have been the watch of choice as long as it passed the tests.

Pun · Oct 1, 2021

gbesq
I suspect that the real reason that NASA selected the Speedmaster for its manned missions had little do do with the hesalite crystal or the manual wind caliber. It memory serves, it was simply the only watch submitted that was still standing when the tests were completed. Had it been an automatic model and/or had a sapphire crystal, it might still have been the watch of choice as long as it passed the tests.

But then they already had certain prerequisites for submissions and then those watches that qualified them underwent various types of tests to check if they'd pass the rigours of the space mission. And only Omega Speedmaster passed them all. We've details of requirements and tests done available elsewhere on internet.

gbesq · Oct 1, 2021

Pun
But then they already had certain prerequisites for submissions and then those watches that qualified them underwent various types of tests to check if they'd pass the rigours of the space mission. And only Omega Speedmaster passed them all. We've details of requirements and tests done available elsewhere on internet.

Point taken. 😀

Duckie · Oct 1, 2021

DoctorEvil
Just to muddy the waters a bit further, I wonder whether NASA would still flight qualify the 3861 Speedmaster Pro if they knew of the "issues" that some owners have been reporting on this forum (e.g. watches seizing up when the chronograph is engaged).

True enough.
I wonder if the current movement would've revealed a problem when subjected to the same suite of tests, or simply slipped through undetected.

Keep in mind the 321 Speedy was simply the preferred watch of choice for a number of astronaughts long before NASA even felt the need to officially certify a watch as part of standard equipment. If I recall correctly, it was the astronaughts themselves which provided the impetus for flight qualification of the watches.
I imagine that had there been repeated operational glitches with any watches in the lead up they would not have been on the preferred list in the first place.
In light of this aspect, perhaps these new movements could not have made it through the first round👎
Also the larger Winding crown, Crown guards and updated pushers were a product of an evolutionary process through the space program. A classic example of form following function👍
We have a saying in my industry.
One can tell how good a piece of gear is by how many people go for it in the first instance.
The gear that's problematic simply gets left on the shelf whenever possible and try a work around instead🙁

pete26 · Oct 1, 2021

I was told by the OB in my city that Omega is still the trusted brand for NASA and the 2021 version with the 3861 movement will be used when space flights by NASA resume in the mid 2020's when they get an upgraded launch vehicle.

The OB said that the 3861 was a more robust movement than its predecessor and they are confident that due to this and it's improved accuracy that it will pass any tests by NASA.

NASA have not tested watches for years but they may do so with the new versions when the space program begins again, but I was told that Omega are still sending them to NASA.

I also learned recently that Bulova had some agreement with NASA for their Lunar watch, but not as an issued watch, but a marketing thing. I was told when I bought my Bulova Lunar from the Bulova AD that Bulova were ceasing production of their Lunar watch as Omega are the official NASA watch. This makes sense as the Lunar pilot page on the Bulova website has been taken down.

The Bulova AD who does not stock Omega said that Omega were throwing a ton of money at NASA to continue using the Omega, but not sure of the veracity of that statement. It sounds like sour grapes from Bulova.

I am hoping that the collectability of the Bulova will go through the roof.

Bizcut1 · Oct 2, 2021

I hate to break it to the naysayers but the 3861 is
still every bit a Moonwatch. Good weekend all.

Pun · Oct 2, 2021

Bizcut1
I hate to break it to the naysayers but the 3861 is
still every bit a Moonwatch. Good weekend all.

🍿

ckhaing · Oct 2, 2021

wait a second !

what is the definition of “moon watch”?
when, and who defined firstly?

Duckie · Oct 2, 2021

ckhaing
wait a second !

what is the definition of “moon watch”?
when, and who defined firstly?

Excellent question👍

It wasn't NASA so my money is on the popular space race culture of the day and Omega jumped on it as soon as they saw the opportunity.

That leads us to the next question.
Who is the arbiter of what constitutes "a Moonwatch"?👎🙁

cvalue13 · Oct 2, 2021

D Duckie
Who is the arbiter of what constitutes "a Moonwatch"?👎🙁

The individual purchasing in the midst of the marketing, who has not been mislead.

DoctorEvil · Oct 2, 2021

D Duckie
Who is the arbiter of what constitutes "a Moonwatch"?👎🙁

If Omega says a watch is a "Moonwatch", then it's a "Moonwatch". Simple! 😝

Archer · Oct 2, 2021

DoctorEvil
If Omega says a watch is a "Moonwatch", then it's a "Moonwatch". Simple! 😝

The most accurate answer. “Moonwatch” isn’t some official title awarded by someone, just a marketing name that Omega uses.

ckhaing · Oct 2, 2021

there may be -

3 counters moonwatch
2 counters moonwatch

manual moonwatch
automatic moonwatch
quartz moonwatch

42mm moonwatch
44mm moonwatch
40mm moonwatch
38mm moonwatch

haselite crystal moonwatch
sapphire crystal moonwatch

stepped dial moonwatch
domed dial moonwatch
coin dial moonwatch

black dial moonwatch
white dial moonwatch
blue dial moonwatch
penda dial moonwatch

no date moonwatch
date moonwatch
day-date moonwatch
moon phase moonwatch
triple calendar moonwatch

ss moonwatch
titanium moonwatch
ceramic moonwatch
yg moonwatch
wg moonwatch
platinum moonwatch
2 tone moonwatch

321 moonwatch
861/86x moonwatch
1861/186x moonwatch
3861 moonwatch
321B moonwatch
3xxx moonwatch
9xxx moonwatch

omega moonwatch
non-omega moonwatch

we are all moon watch
::stirthepot::

Nobel Prize · Oct 2, 2021

The 2021 speedy is a moonwatch as much as any other Speedmaster ever made that hasn’t been to the moon.

just like all other brands of watches that have been to space or the moon are somehow not moonwatches.

it’s marketing.

Omegafanman · Oct 3, 2021

Buzz knows it’s a Moonwatch..... and lets not get him angry ;0)
...

cvalue13 · Oct 3, 2021

Nobel Prize
The 2021 speedy is a moonwatch as much as any other Speedmaster ever made that hasn’t been to the moon.

just like all other brands of watches that have been to space or the moon as somehow not moonwatches.

it’s marketing.

This idea that “a moonwatch is what Omega says it is” is only nominally true.

When Omega markets a watch as a “moonwatch,” they’re trading on sentimentality and “heritage” behind the space mission and Omega’s roll in that story. So the view of “a moonwatch is what Omega says is a moonwatch” simply ignores the more substantive question many are attempting to discuss: whether Omega’s marketing is stretching too far any meaningful sense of actual sentimentality and heritage attached to a given watch.

A given watch’s actual connection to heritage and sentimentality can vary, despite Omega’s singular label.

Archer · Oct 3, 2021

cvalue13
This idea that “a moonwatch is what Omega says it is” is only nominally true.

Omega is the maker of said watches, so if they call it a Moonwatch, it's a Moonwatch. If a group of watch collectors and enthusiasts agree with that or not is immaterial to the name of the watch given by the company that makes the watches and names them.

I do see the point about the "more substantive" issue, but in reality no amount of discussion about the appropriateness of the name is going to change it, so "it is what it is"...but of course it's a good topic for generating clicks on blog sites.

Bizcut1 · Oct 3, 2021

Archer
Omega is the maker of said watches, so if they call it a Moonwatch, it's a Moonwatch

Thus ends the lesson.

Can The 2021 Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch Professional Still Be Considered A Moonwatch?

cvalue13

Archer

gbesq

Pun

gbesq

Duckie

pete26

Bizcut1

Pun

ckhaing

Duckie

cvalue13

DoctorEvil

Archer

ckhaing

Nobel Prize

Omegafanman

cvalue13

Archer

Bizcut1

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