Can anyone explain this accelerated dial "ageing"?

[Syrte]

Barking mad

Quite some time ago (two or three years) I think it was @Spacefruit commented in a post the effect of storing watches in bank security boxes in Hong Kong and the negative effect it had on the watches.
I live in a humid environment and for the last three years (prior to that I was living in the desert, so no humidity issues) have kept my watches in a dry box. I also keep the boxes and other things that might be affected by the humidity in a dry box and am about to buy a larger one to accomodate more.

We have cameras and a security system and when we are away the watches are moved to a safe until we return.

Very interesting, thanks for posting.

 

[Borosilikat]

Oil on the dial, that rainbow shimmer is an obvious tell

 

[Transitus]

Seeing as this is more like a whodunnit or rather a whatdunnit - I'd make a case for dial refinishing and some sort of conflict of oils or oil and another solvent. Black dials have a high probability for cosmetic intervention and I'd say visually, as others have mentioned, it looks absolutely typical of an oily irridescence.
It's often overlooked that oils can degrade or dissolve other oils too!

 

[Archer]

For all those saying it's oil, it's not. Again, I have seen 2 or 3 of these in the past with this sheen, and the dials were perfectly dry and clean.

 

[ConElPueblo]

The amount of speculation in this thread is absurd.

A well-known dealer with a decent reputation (of high prices, but not of selling duds), no signs of redialing, no apparent left-over residue of the oil you seem to think is the culprit and three members (one of whom is a watchmaker) sharing examples of either rapid degradation or non-oily shimmering surfaces on watches without any issues and still there are members making unfounded guesses?

@Transitus, @Borosilikat, @Deafboy, @Dgercp, @watchyouwant - do any of you have any tangible piece of evidence/experience with this?

 

[Davidt]

I don't buy into the 'dial has been tampered with' theory and the fact is this dealer likely had the watch in his possession for what, a month? Two at the most.
After selling the watch the dial degraded after around 18 months, likely as a result of environmental factors.

It's unfortunate but one of those things that can happen occasionally. Doesn't mean anyone's to blame.

 

[simonsays]

I would like to know if there is still the oily shimmer on the dial now, or has it gone? If it is no longer there I think that it is a likely culprit, if it is still there, then fine look elsewhere for the cause.

Every dealer gets a dud now and again, it's how they deal with it that makes them good or mediocre.

I have never had a watch degrade in my possession?

 

[hejsam]

I have seen this ”shimmer” on the surface of glossy black omega with original dials a couple of times before.

I had a 50’s Seamaster with the same ”oily” looking shimmer that also produced patina in a similar kind of way. Dont find any great photos to show the oily tone but this is how the patina looked:

 

[Transitus]

ConElPueblo

The amount of speculation in this thread is absurd.

A well-known dealer with a decent reputation (of high prices, but not of selling duds), no signs of redialing, no apparent left-over residue of the oil you seem to think is the culprit and three members (one of whom is a watchmaker) sharing examples of either rapid degradation or non-oily shimmering surfaces on watches without any issues and still there are members making unfounded guesses?

@Transitus, @Borosilikat, @Deafboy, @Dgercp, @watchyouwant - do any of you have any tangible piece of evidence/experience with this?

Don't be so tough on speculation. In the absence of facts we're all speculators. Granted, some of you are much more likely to be accurate than others but until the exam comes out I'll enjoy the debate.

 

[ConElPueblo]

simonsays

I would like to know if there is still the oily shimmer on the dial now, or has it gone? If it is no longer there I think that it is a likely culprit, if it is still there, then fine look elsewhere for the cause.

You will need to find the same type of light source as was used in the photos with the shimmering.

I just had a walk around the house with my black dialed Constellation 168.004 to reproduce the effect, but no luck. The one time I saw the effect, it was in a room lit with flourescent lamps. I nearly panicked as it came out of nowhere and I was sure that the dial was shot. When I left the room it had gone.

 

[ConElPueblo]

Transitus

Don't be so tough on speculation. In the absence of facts we're all speculators. Granted, some of you are much more likely to be accurate than others but until the exam comes out I'll enjoy the debate.

Have you ever heard of anyone using oil on a dial before?

What makes you say it has been redialed - anything stands out on this one?

 

[JwRosenthal]

ConElPueblo

Have you ever heard of anyone using oil on a dial before?

Maybe not intentionally, but man did it make that black dial pop!

 

[Transitus]

ConElPueblo

Have you ever heard of anyone using oil on a dial before?

What makes you say it has been redialed - anything stands out on this one?

The first I heard of oil on a dial was the 3rd post of this thread and subsequent ones and it seemed a speculation that was entirely plausible. I've never heard of it before, but there's plenty I haven't heard of that turned out to be true.
By refinish I meant the above - because of the manifest rapid deterioration of the paint but, yes, that could be due to myriad causes.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who can account for the iridescence in terms of materials and optics as that might provide a big clue.

 

[Archer]

ConElPueblo

You will need to find the same type of light source as was used in the photos with the shimmering.

I just had a walk around the house with my black dialed Constellation 168.004 to reproduce the effect, but no luck. The one time I saw the effect, it was in a room lit with flourescent lamps. I nearly panicked as it came out of nowhere and I was sure that the dial was shot. When I left the room it had gone.

It's much more easily seen when the dial is not behind a crystal. Out of the case it's quite easy to see.

It's surprising to see so many people clinging to the idea that the dial has had oil smeared on it - simply not the case. Again I've had these on my bench and the dials were completely dry. The effect comes from the lacquer as I've said already...

 

[ConElPueblo]

Transitus

The first I heard of oil on a dial was the 3rd post of this thread and subsequent ones and it seemed a speculation that was entirely plausible. I've never heard of it before, but there's plenty I haven't heard of that turned out to be true.
By refinish I meant the above - because of the manifest rapid deterioration of the paint but, yes, that could be due to myriad causes.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who can account for the iridescence in terms of materials and optics as that might provide a big clue.

Sorry if I come across a little harsh in my posts, but the curse of internet wisdom is that if a myth or unresearched opinion gets repeated enough times, eventually it will become the established fact. At some point, someone will look up this thread while researching why his dial has an odd shimmer and if the majority of the contributors say it is due to a seller treating his dials with oil - or redialing them even - that will likely be the take away for that person.

You'll have to ask yourself why the dial should have been treated if that even is something done by unscrupulous sellers? Here we have a seller who has a downright massive output of sales of mostly fairly common Omegas in various states of repair and who is generally upfront with what he has. What has he to gain? What has he to lose?

I find it slightly odd that given the various posts in this thread - and having no preconception of whether this method of treating a dial is plausible - you went with supporting the notion that has yet to be supported by actual experience.

 

[Deafboy]

I wonder if the OP pictures with the "rainbow effect" the watch was illuminated inadvertently with polarized light source. A regular light source can become polarized by reflecting off at certain angle (called Brewster's angle) from an object (e.g. window). The polarized light reflecting off the dial's top layer (lacquer) will have a more pronounce light interference and produce this rainbow effect. In fact, polarized light is often used to characterized thin films (called ellipsometer) to measure thick film thickness.

Edited: Feb 13, 2021

 

[Transitus]

ConElPueblo

Sorry if I come across a little harsh in my posts, but the curse of internet wisdom is that if a myth or unresearched opinion gets repeated enough times, eventually it will become the established fact. At some point, someone will look up this thread while researching why his dial has an odd shimmer and if the majority of the contributors say it is due to a seller treating his dials with oil - or redialing them even - that will likely be the take away for that person.

You'll have to ask yourself why the dial should have been treated if that even is something done by unscrupulous sellers? Here we have a seller who has a downright massive output of sales of mostly fairly common Omegas in various states of repair and who is generally upfront with what he has. What has he to gain? What has he to lose?

I find it slightly odd that given the various posts in this thread - and having no preconception of whether this method of treating a dial is plausible - you went with supporting the notion that has yet to be supported by actual experience.

I'm absolutely no fan of internet wisdom and to be fair I have not factored in damage to reputation as I had no knowledge of the reputation you mention. I hope that is not the case.
I do believe in speculation to test and even 'prove' established wisdom and that's just healthy debate which can be irritating for people who know what they are talking about Apologies.
The 'shimmer' or 'irridescence' is still a mystery as far as I am aware and I'd be happy to discard my speculation entirely if someone could offer an actual explanation for it!

 

[Vercingetorix]

 

[cristos71]

I've seen this 'oil' effect before on black gloss dials and for me it's always been a tell of a good, original dial and I view it generally as a buy signal

 

[Sharp]

cristos71

I've seen this 'oil' effect before on black gloss dials and for me it's always been a tell of a good, original dial and I view it generally as a buy signal

Late to the party but I completely agree with this, any suggestion this is oil on the surface is nonsense