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Calibre 8500: Do they all have a silicon balance spring?

EuroDriver
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[EDIT: The Skyfall is not, and cannot be upgraded to a magnetic resistance of 15,000 gauss like the master chronometer.

I developed this thread with a lot of incomplete/erroneous information that I found from different sources. The Skyfall does feature a silicon balance spring but lacks other amagnetic parts that are found in the master chronometer movement and cannot be upgraded to such. Nevertheless, I hope that the remaining information is useful to you and worth the read]

In particular, I'm hunting down a reference 231.10.42.21.03.001 which I am planning to pull the trigger on in the next week or two. I know that shortly after its release, it was superseded by the 231.10.42.21.03.003 which was categorized as Master Co-Axial due to the increased magnetic resistance provided by the silicon balance spring. I prefer the former due to the date cage and cleaner dial.

However in shopping around for the 231.10.42.21.03.001, there have been a couple that are described as having a silicon balance spring and magnetic resistance of 15,000 gauss (even though they are not labeled Master Co-Axial).

I'd like to verify whether all reference 231.10.42.21.03.001 watches have the silicon balance spring or whether this is false. If only some samples have the silicon spring, how would I be able to determine which do and which don't?

Any help with this will be greatly appreciated.
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Aqua Terras with "Master Co-Axial" on the dial will have silicon hairsprings. Most AT's with just "co-axial" on the dial (no "master") do not have silicon hairsprings--the exception for the co-axial 8500's that I know of is if the dial says ">15,000 Gauss". But very few had >15,000 Gauss on the dial. There was a "bumblebee" version of the AT was specially marketed as anti-magnetic that I remember. https://omegaforums.net/threads/ten-years-the-seamaster-aqua-terra-15000-gauss.154955/

There may have been more but I don't recall them. [EDIT - UPON FURTHER RESEARCH THERE DEFINITELY ARE AQUA TERRAS WITH THE Si14 HAIRSPRING THAT ARE NOT MASTER CO-AXIAL AND ARE NOT MARKED >15,000 GAUSS]

I wanted the buy the 38.5mm blue dial AT with the date cage. But I ended up buying the "Master Co-axial" version of the watch (no date cage) because the later variant had the silicon hairspring.
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EuroDriver
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Aqua Terras with "Master Co-Axial" on the dial will have silicon hairsprings. Most AT's with just "co-axial" on the dial (no "master") do not have silicon hairsprings...

You are correct, my bad. It's "co-axial/master co-axial." (chronometer appears on the 8900's). I edited my original post to reflect this correctly.

I am biased towards buying a variant with the date cage, but I am not completely opposed to the newer Master Co-Axial version. But assuming (probably correctly) that the date cage versions that state they have a silicon balance spring are incorrect, would I be losing out on anything besides the date cage and slightly lower magnetic resistance (less accuracy, more frequent service requirements, etc.)?

Also, is the blue hue the same on both versions?
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EuroDriver EuroDriver
You are correct, my bad. It's "co-axial/master co-axial." (chronometer appears on the 8900's). I edited my original post to reflect this correctly.

I am biased towards buying a variant with the date cage, but I am not completely opposed to the newer Master Co-Axial version. But assuming (probably correctly) that the date cage versions that state they have a silicone balance spring are incorrect, would I be losing out on anything besides the date cage and slightly lower magnetic resistance (less accuracy, more frequent service requirements, etc.)?

Also, is the blue hue the same on both versions?

The blue color is the same between the Co-axial and Master Co-axial AT's that were 38.5mm or 41.5mm. These are the one with the vertical striping. The newest AT's (horizontal striping) are just slightly more blue-gray.

As to whether you'd notice a difference between the co-axial 8500 and master co-axial 8500, I don't know. Personally, I wanted the anti-magnetic properties of the master co-axial and also the newer watch. In addition, the blue 38.5mm co-axial AT with the date cage is the same watch worn by Daniel Craig in Skyfall, and it carries a hefty premium over the master co-axial version. Like an extra $3k. So the choice was pretty easy for me.

I think we'd need to hear from someone like Archer to know how much better the master co-axial 8500 is over the original co-axial 8500.
 
EuroDriver
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The newest AT's (horizontal striping) are just slightly more blue-gray.

In addition, the blue 38.5mm co-axial AT with the date cage is the same watch worn by Daniel Craig in Skyfall, and it carries a hefty premium over the master co-axial version. Like an extra $3k. So the choice was pretty easy for me.

I didn't like the blue hue on the new 8900. I bought one, but just couldn't become attached to it, so I sold it after a month. I really like the blue hue of the 8500. (I think) I really like the date cage and yes, I've noticed the premium just because it was worn by Daniel Craig (even though it's unofficially labeled "skyfall" - it's not a limited edition, etc.) so I'm still hedging on whether I'm willing to pay that premium or not. They are also getting tough to find in pristine condition, with papers, etc.

It's especially tough because I don't have the luxury of seeing them in person before dropping my cash but either version will most likely be my primary, forever GADA piece. That's why I'm putting so much research into it.
 
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I have the silver version (231.10.42.21.02.001) and an Si14 balance spring rings a bell but I can’t find any markings on the watch to confirm this. It might have been on the pictogram card but I won’t be able to check that until tomorrow.
I’ve just had mine serviced after owning it for 8 years and it looks amazing and is keeping great time.
 
EuroDriver
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I ianarc
I have the silver version (231.10.42.21.02.001) and an Si14 balance spring rings a bell but I can’t find any markings on the watch to confirm this. It might have been on the pictogram card but I won’t be able to check that until tomorrow.
I’ve just had mine serviced after owning it for 8 years and it looks amazing and is keeping great time.

Thanks for the info and if you can verify, I'd greatly appreciate it. If some do in fact have Si14, I'm definitely willing to spring the dough.

If anyone else has info, please chime in.
 
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EuroDriver EuroDriver
Thanks for the info and if you can verify, I'd greatly appreciate it. If some do in fact have Si14, I'm definitely willing to spring the dough.

If anyone else has info, please chime in.
After wracking my brains, and referring to the Omega site, it was the 8500 non-master chronometer Planet Ocean I used to have that had the Si14 spring. The Aqua Terra does not.
https://www.omegawatches.com/media/pdf/watches/basic-functions/Guide_231-10-42-21-02-001_English.pdf
https://www.omegawatches.com/media/pdf/watches/basic-functions/Guide_232-30-46-21-01-003_English.pdf

It is a lovely watch though. When I was buying mine I wanted the one with the date cage as I think it looked so much nicer than the one without.
 
EuroDriver
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Thank you. I'm aiming to make up my mind and pull the trigger on "the one" by the end of next week.

I have been doing a lot of research on this because I wanted to avoid selling myself short by paying the extra premium on the "skyfall" model and having it be inferior to the newer one (even though I think the 8500 is pretty solid either way).

Based on everything I have read and seen, the aqua terra "skyfall" (and apparently its reference 231.10.39 variants) was originally released in 38.5mm with the calibre 8500 movement which at the time, did not incorporate the silicon balance spring. Then the 41.5mm was quietly released with no fanfare about the Si14 balance spring. Shortly after, the 231.10.42.21.03.003 was released, labeled "Skyfall" and as Master Co-Axial, certified to resist magnetic fields up to 15,000 gauss. Unfortunately, they deleted the date cage when it was re-released.

My hunch is that the 231.10.42.21.03.001 was released so quietly because it had not yet attained official anti-magnetic certification to 15,000 gauss when it was launched into the market (however the literature does indicate it is COSC certified). I still haven't been able to verify whether all 231.10.42.21.03.001 models have Si14 balance spring, or only some.

[Edit: I just noticed that the literature you posted on the silver aqua terra is also a 41.5mm, which further fuels my suspicions on whether there was a mid-release update which is nearly impossible to identify.]

If someone can correct me on any of this, please do.
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EuroDriver EuroDriver
Thank you. I'm aiming to make up my mind and pull the trigger on "the one" by the end of next week.

I have been doing a lot of research on this because I wanted to avoid selling myself short by paying the extra premium on the "skyfall" model and having it be inferior to the newer one (even though I think the 8500 is pretty solid either way).

Based on everything I have read and seen, the aqua terra "skyfall" (and apparently its reference 231.10.39 variants) was originally released in 38.5mm with the calibre 8500 movement which at the time, did not incorporate the silicone balance spring. Then the 41.5mm was quietly released with no fanfare about the Si14 balance spring. Shortly after, the 231.10.42.21.03.003 was released, labeled "Skyfall" and as Master Co-Axial, certified to resist magnetic fields up to 15,000 gauss. Unfortunately, they deleted the date cage when it was re-released.

My hunch is that the 231.10.42.21.03.001 was released so quietly because it had not yet attained official anti-magnetic certification to 15,000 gauss when it was launched into the market (however the literature does indicate it is COSC certified). I still haven't been able to verify whether all 231.10.42.21.03.001 models have Si14 balance spring, or only some.

[Edit: I just noticed that the literature you posted on the silver aqua terra is also a 41.5mm, which further fuels my suspicions on whether there was a mid-release update which is nearly impossible to identify.]

If someone can correct me on any of this, please do.
When you find one you could check the pictograms card. It should indicate on there whether it has Si14 or not.
 
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Well thanks to this thread I just bought the 38.5mm non master co-axial Skyfall Aqua Terra with the date cage. 😉

I'll sell my master co-axial AT.

At the end of the day, I prefer the screen accurate version even with the Skyfall premium added to the price. And it will go nicely with my 2541.80 Goldeneye SMP (quartz) and my 2220.80 Casino Royale SMP. All the better that Skyfall and Casino Royale are two of my favorite Bond movies.

Bond novelty/limited edition watches don't do anything for me but I love the screen accurate productions.

Bond 1.jpg Bond 5.jpg
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EuroDriver
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I ianarc
When you find one you could check the pictograms card. It should indicate on there whether it has Si14 or not.

502 to right 502 to right
Well thanks to this thread I just bought the 38.5mm non master co-axial Skyfall Aqua Terra with the date cage. 😉

I'll sell my master co-axial AT. At the end of the day, I prefer the screen accurate version. Bond novelty/limited edition watches don't do anything for me but I love the screen accurate productions.

@ianarc Thanks for the suggestion - I will definitely be asking for an image of the pictogram card before buying.

@502 to right I hear you. I could care less about Bond novelty and in my case, I'm not concerned about screen accurate productions but I undersand you - I'm a little OCD about those kinds of things with other products. In my case, I love the date cage and definitely want a sample with Si14 spring. Checking the pictogram card is definitely a good suggestion, just in case some do and some don't.
 
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EuroDriver EuroDriver
@ianarc Thanks for the suggestion - I will definitely be asking for an image of the pictogram card before buying.

@502 to right I hear you. I could care less about Bond novelty and in my case, I'm not concerned about screen accurate productions but I undersand you - I'm a little OCD about those kinds of things with other products. In my case, I love the date cage and definitely want a sample with Si14 spring. Checking the pictogram card is definitely a good suggestion, just in case some do and some don't.

When I get my Skyfall AT I will check to see if it has the Si14 hairspring.
 
EuroDriver
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When I get my Skyfall AT I will check to see if it has the Si14 hairspring.

Congrats on your new acquisition! I hope you get the Si14 hairspring on yours and I'll be joining you soon with the 41.5mm variant.
 
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I checked my Omegas that I know have an Si14 hairspring with an exhibition caseback. They have Si14 etched on at least one of the spokes of the balance wheel. If the watch is running you will need to pull the crown out to hack the movement so the balance wheel is not moving.

Omega-Co-Axial-8500.jpg
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EuroDriver
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Thanks for the tip. However in order to verify that way, I will need to have already bought it. There's 3 watches I'm currently eyeing - I have sent them all a message to send me a pic of the pictogram card - I'll see how it goes.
 
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EuroDriver EuroDriver
Thanks for the tip. However in order to verify that way, I will need to have already bought it. There's 3 watches I'm currently eyeing - I have sent them all a message to send me a pic of the pictogram card - I'll see how it goes.

The seller should be able to check for you. If they won't, they're a poor seller and you'd be better off avoiding them anyway.
 
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