Buying my first vintage Omega Constellation

ossfm · Jan 14, 2020

HI @Dimitris. You kept asking for opinions, so here is another one. The watch itself is ok. It's not going to win any contests but that is just fine. I feel I have some experience on this topic. My first vintage watch was also a Constellation. Once I saw the pie pan dials, I knew I needed one. In fact, I bought my first vintage Connie here on OF (https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-constellation-pie-pan-168-010.35307/). After talking with the seller, he told me that it was also his first Connie. So he and I have that in common now.

I suggest that you buy the watch if you like it. That's what I did. I also suggest that you listen to the feedback from the other forum members. There is a lot of experience here given for free.

Originally the condition was good for me. I picked this one because the price was good and the the case back medallion was in better condition than most I had seen. I also guessed (and now am certain) that OF was a good place to buy a vintage omega. The people here really care about the watches and not just making a quick buck. That is peace of mind that is very valuable these days. The vintage market is getting hotter, which is driving up prices and also bringing out some pieces that are not in the best condition.

Further, I suggest that you not buy the watch until you can see the movement. If the movement is in poor shape, it will cost a lot of money to make it right. Definitely post movement pictures here and ask for assessments.

My Connie will be coming back from service next week. I am surprised at the hints or beliefs that a service will not cost much money. These vintage Constellations and movements are very expensive to service. I have been quoted USD 500-700 on several occasions for just a normal service. Please keep in mind that the service will be more than the cost of the watch if you need one down the line. Also keep in mind that parts are getting harder to find as time passes by. The mid-500 movements were great but they aren't making them any more. 😀 I assume that is what is inside "your" watch.

The last suggestion I have is buy the best condition you can afford. I liked the condition of my watch originally, and I still do like it. The bubbling on my dial is not really noticeable at arm's length. Maybe it will be the same with yours. I would like to upgrade to something with better condition but I bought this one first and therefore it will be hard to sell this one since it was my first vintage.

Good luck with the choice and let us know. Oh, and post more pics!!

VetPsychWars · Jan 14, 2020

ossfm
I am surprised at the hints or beliefs that a service will not cost much money. These vintage Constellations and movements are very expensive to service. I have been quoted USD 500-700 on several occasions for just a normal service.

This is why my local watchmaker, albeit at the Rolex dealer and Rolex trained, suggests that service by Omega is worth looking at. $550 is starting to look like a competive price.

I understand the fear that a watch will come back in a condition a collector would not want. But a lot of these aren't in collector condition to start with.

ossfm · Jan 14, 2020

VetPsychWars
This is why my local watchmaker, albeit at the Rolex dealer and Rolex trained, suggests that service by Omega is worth looking at. $550 is starting to look like a competive price.

These prices are from independents, not Omega directly. I have the impression it would be more expensive at Omega directly, though I can't say for sure because I didn't ask them for a quotation.

I also went with an independent because I could tell them exactly what I wanted. Mine aren't "collector" pieces but they are my collection and I want done what I want done, not what Omega tells me they will do. I went to the shop and talked to the watch makers. They were nice enough to spend some time with me. I brought the Connie and my -69 Speedmaster (it may be an obvious hint but bundling helps lower the price). The watchmaker asked if that was a 56x movement in the Connie. He said he liked that movement and he learned on that one. It also helped that he spoke with a swiss or german accent 😀

That's how they won my business. We'll see next week if the work is good.

BlackTalon · Jan 14, 2020

VetPsychWars
It shows poor judgement at the least. You never second-guess the man on the ground. You disrespect him.

Riiiiight...

I suspect many watchmakers would rather swap out a crystal than spend the time trying to polish out scratches. Just like many auto mechanics would rather change out an ECU instead of opening it up and replacing bad capacitors. Which is fine, as their time costs money. But that does not mean a watch owner who was working carefully to restore the crystal would not be able to make it a lot better. The info we have to go on is pretty thin right now.

If watchmakers (or any other repair professions) should never be challenged, I suspect no online forums would exist. I for one would never assume any/ all professionals in a particular repair field are equally knowledgeable and equally skilled. I've made it quite a few decades without ever experiencing this; I have always seen a wide variance.

Ultimately respect is earned. It is not a right just because someone holds a certain position.

Dan S · Jan 14, 2020

VetPsychWars
It shows poor judgement at the least. You never second-guess the man on the ground. You disrespect him.

Tom

BlackTalon
Riiiiight...

I suspect many watchmakers would rather swap out a crystal than spend the time trying to polish out scratches. Just like many auto mechanics would rather change out an ECU instead of opening it up and replacing bad capacitors. Which is fine, as their time costs money. But that does not mean a watch owner who was working carefully to restore the crystal would not be able to make it a lot better. The info we have to go on is pretty thin right now.

If watchmakers (or any other repair professions) should never be challenged, I suspect no online forums would exist. I for one would never assume any/ all professionals in a particular repair field are equally knowledgeable and equally skilled. I've made it quite a few decades without ever experiencing this; I have always seen a wide variance.

Ultimately respect is earned. It is not a right just because someone holds a certain position.

My take on this was also that there could easily be miscommunication going on since we are hearing the watchmaker's comments second-hand. Some members are new to watches, so there are often misunderstandings. I think we can all remember many occasions on the forum where follow-up questions have exposed errors and misinterpretations. The OP says that the watchmaker is recommending against buffing since he thinks it will cause cracks to form in the crystal. Honestly, it sounds to me like there may be some confusion or a possible misunderstanding on someone's part, so I think it's worth a follow up. Similarly, while machine buffing is not always recommended, this is not the same as a patient and careful hand-sanding and polishing, and not every watchmaker is willing to perform the latter.

Ultimately, there is a lot of experience on the forum, and I wouldn't immediately assume that any given watchmaker has more vintage watch knowledge than the collective wisdom of the forum, even though the watchmaker has the advantage of seeing the watch in-person. After all, there are watchmakers ... and there are watchmakers. We are all learning new tips and tricks every day, and I suspect that many watchmakers can say the same thing.

VetPsychWars · Jan 15, 2020

ossfm
That's how they won my business. We'll see next week if the work is good.

I'm with you. I much prefer the personal contact. The watchmaker I reference above also works on the side doing vintage pieces that his store can't accept. He likes to meet at a local coffee shop to pick up or drop off, and he puts up with my ignorant questions. He's a young guy, too, so he'll be in the business for a while. I traded him my old Speedmaster for servicing on a goodly number of watches.

Tom

VetPsychWars · Jan 15, 2020

Dan S
Ultimately, there is a lot of experience on the forum, and I wouldn't immediately assume that any given watchmaker has more vintage watch knowledge than the collective wisdom of the forum, even though the watchmaker has the advantage of seeing the watch in-person. After all, there are watchmakers ... and there are watchmakers. We are all learning new tips and tricks every day, and I suspect that many watchmakers can say the same thing.

Say what you will about "knowledge" or "wisdom" on this forum, but when an expert has the piece in hand and all you know is third-hand hearsay, isn't it a little arrogant to assume you know more?

Tom

Dan S · Jan 15, 2020

VetPsychWars
Say what you will about "knowledge" or "wisdom" on this forum, but when an expert has the piece in hand and all you know is third-hand hearsay, isn't it a little arrogant to assume you know more?

Tom

Thanks Tom. This helps me understand your viewpoint. But I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that every time a newbie comes on the forum and says "my watchmaker told me so-and-so" that we would automatically accept it without question, even if it seems implausible.

Moreover, I suspect that the OP may be happy to have alternative perspectives about how a crystal can sometimes be salvaged. Let's see what happens in the end before rendering judgement. For example, if he is able to polish it by hand, you may regret calling other forum members arrogant and disrespectful (or perhaps you won't). In my time on this forum and others, I've seen countless examples of misunderstandings by newbie members, and errors made by so-called experts, and I see nothing wrong with probing a bit deeper.

Kargol · Jan 15, 2020

Omega full service is around 500 EUR here for a simple steel mechanical watch, including worn parts, and also refurbishing of the case. At least that's what I see when I visit the official Omega website....
My watchmaker charges 60-120 EUR, for a service(disassembling - lubricating), not including parts. I would not send a vintage watch worth under 2500 EUR to Omega. It just does not make sense. Especially if you trust your watchmaker.. Polishing case and glass in an independent WM here is around 50 EUR, and you can discuss how rough or how soft you want it.

Personally I use polywatch for the glass with just a cloth, for about an hour and it is a miracle. For case I just use cape cod. I don't like sand papers and heavy polishing. Even with these two simple methods the watch gets a really great upgrade and and an unbelievable fresh new look, and it does not lose its value and charm.

Just my 50 cents of thought...

Cheers,
Panos

VetPsychWars · Jan 15, 2020

I admit my expectations of a service are different than many of you. For example, I expect the watch to keep time as well as it can within reason. 30 seconds a day is not acceptable to me, for example. In addition, if a watch is water resistant, I want the parts that maintain that water resistance to be replaced. Most times that's crystal, crown, and back gasket. I do not find merit in keeping these parts original when proper replacements are still available.

I have been fortunate thus far that I have not been forced to accept any compromises. In addition, with certain exceptions, I am and will continue to divest myself of most of my vintage pieces because I have enough post-1980 Omega watches I would rather wear... and these are best sent back to Omega for service.

I do have a soft spot in my head^Wheart for my WWI-era wristwatches, though!

Tom

VetPsychWars · Jan 15, 2020

Here are some more thoughts on vintage crystals.

These things are often 50 to 100 years old. As they age, they can turn yellow and the plasticizers outgas, leaving them brittle. They are fairly impact resistant, but less so as they get older. When you resurface one, those of you who start with a coarse abrasive and move progressively finer are removing material, sometimes a lot. Not only are you changing the profile to some degree, you are also making it thinner. The resistance to impact, already lower because of embrittlement, is lowered even more by thinning. In addition, by opening that surface to the air, you're allowing what plasticizer is left to escape.

Like many of you, I have and will use Polywatch or Novus polish when I scratch a plastic crystal. Almost always, in my case, that is a newer crystal, not one that is decades old.

Tom

Dimitris · Jan 15, 2020

ossfm
HI @Dimitris. You kept asking for opinions, so here is another one. The watch itself is ok. It's not going to win any contests but that is just fine. I feel I have some experience on this topic. My first vintage watch was also a Constellation. Once I saw the pie pan dials, I knew I needed one. In fact, I bought my first vintage Connie here on OF (https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-constellation-pie-pan-168-010.35307/). After talking with the seller, he told me that it was also his first Connie. So he and I have that in common now.

I suggest that you buy the watch if you like it. That's what I did. I also suggest that you listen to the feedback from the other forum members. There is a lot of experience here given for free.

Originally the condition was good for me. I picked this one because the price was good and the the case back medallion was in better condition than most I had seen. I also guessed (and now am certain) that OF was a good place to buy a vintage omega. The people here really care about the watches and not just making a quick buck. That is peace of mind that is very valuable these days. The vintage market is getting hotter, which is driving up prices and also bringing out some pieces that are not in the best condition.

Further, I suggest that you not buy the watch until you can see the movement. If the movement is in poor shape, it will cost a lot of money to make it right. Definitely post movement pictures here and ask for assessments.

My Connie will be coming back from service next week. I am surprised at the hints or beliefs that a service will not cost much money. These vintage Constellations and movements are very expensive to service. I have been quoted USD 500-700 on several occasions for just a normal service. Please keep in mind that the service will be more than the cost of the watch if you need one down the line. Also keep in mind that parts are getting harder to find as time passes by. The mid-500 movements were great but they aren't making them any more. 😀 I assume that is what is inside "your" watch.

The last suggestion I have is buy the best condition you can afford. I liked the condition of my watch originally, and I still do like it. The bubbling on my dial is not really noticeable at arm's length. Maybe it will be the same with yours. I would like to upgrade to something with better condition but I bought this one first and therefore it will be hard to sell this one since it was my first vintage.

Good luck with the choice and let us know. Oh, and post more pics!!

I couldn't agree more , ofcourse and I would like to buy a mint gold pie pan connie but my budget is not that high that's the reason Am aiming low with some work done this watch will look beautiful and as they say the beauty is in the eyes of the beholder in the end 😀 !! Few days in the omega forum and I learned so many things from you guys thank you , I really appreciate it!!

gatorcpa · Jan 15, 2020

VetPsychWars
These things are often 50 to 100 years old. As they age, they can turn yellow and the plasticizers outgas, leaving them brittle. They are fairly impact resistant, but less so as they get older. When you resurface one, those of you who start with a coarse abrasive and move progressively finer are removing material, sometimes a lot. Not only are you changing the profile to some degree, you are also making it thinner. The resistance to impact, already lower because of embrittlement, is lowered even more by thinning. In addition, by opening that surface to the air, you're allowing what plasticizer is left to escape.

If the crystal is an Omega OEM, the quality on these were very high (even by today's standards). In my experience, the amount of material removed is infinitesimal and should not make a difference in the profile of the crystal.

What Polywatch does is use friction to liquefy the surface and allow the plastic to flow into and fill the fine scratches. If the scratches are very deep, then the crystal needs to be replaced because there would be no way to abrade the scratch low enough to fill in.
gatorcpa

Dimitris · Jan 16, 2020

Quick update went to examine the watch a bit more the acrylic has a slight crack so it can't be polished , also i got a picture of the movement and a new price . He said he can sell it to me for €400 also for that price he will polish the watch , bracelet , service the movement and change the crystal .

gatorcpa · Jan 16, 2020

I would do that deal. It would be worth the extra $50 or so to get the proper Omega crystal with a silver or “white” tension ring.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=Ome+cs#14902&submit=Search

I would also pass on the case and bracelet polishing. All it needs is to have the case and bracelet ultrasonically cleaned. Polish it too much and it will look like a melting ice cube which can never be repaired.

Good luck with purchase.
gatorcpa

janice&fred · Jan 16, 2020

what he said. grab that deal and skip the polishing.

Dimitris · Jan 16, 2020

gatorcpa
I would do that deal. It would be worth the extra $50 or so to get the proper Omega crystal with a silver or “white” tension ring.

hlet himhim://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=Ome cs#14902&submit=Search

I would also pass on the case and bracelet polishing. All it needs is to have the case and bracelet ultrasonically cleaned. Polish it too much and it will look like a melting ice cube which can never be repaired.

Good luck with purchase.
gatorcpa

Not even a little 😁?

gatorcpa · Jan 16, 2020

Dimitris
Not even a little 😁?

Nope. Not even a little.

Buy this instead:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blitz-Two-...hing-Cloth-silver-gold-platinum-/383372544032

When the watch guy is finished, give it a surface wipe with that.

You do not want to take any edges off the lugs, or remove any more of the original finish on the watch case than necessary for sanitary purposes.
gatorcpa

TexOmega · Jan 16, 2020

Address the rotor wear at service

Cool yellow case gasket.

At that price, a no brainer. Crosshair!

Kargol · Jan 16, 2020

You will never find such kind of deal for a connie. At least for the next months.. If you like the aesthetics just grab it, And leave it alone. Just service and a little cleaning of case and bracelet with ultrasonic...

Buying my first vintage Omega Constellation

ossfm

VetPsychWars

ossfm

BlackTalon

Dan S

VetPsychWars

VetPsychWars

Dan S

Kargol

VetPsychWars

VetPsychWars

Dimitris

gatorcpa

Dimitris

gatorcpa

janice&fred

Dimitris

gatorcpa

TexOmega

Kargol

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