Breitling vintage Navitimers collectors thread

chronoboy64

Thanks you very much for your Investigation @budgewink. This is great work.
You are correct, the Bereiting 7650 Yachting is no Navitimer reference, that was my mistake.
I don´t believe, that there are Navitimers with V178 from 1953. IMO it is common sense in the community that there was a batch of 806 from the early sixtees with wrong serial number engraving "8xxxxx" instead of "9xxxxx". They pop up from time to time and I have been offered one or two in the past. As they have the "806" engraved on the caseback and also the later bezel it is quite obvious that they are later watches and no "806 pre 806" watches.
HAGWE
Hajo

n-theory

Agreed! Until then...😀

henrikaa

I can confirm this as well. Having spoken with Kurt B on the topic, it does not seem like there are any Navis predating 1954. At least he hasn’t found any.

budgewink

This is why I love this forum, the knowledge here of real core pieces stands out.
So it seems anything pre 1954 is conceptual? Or open to the notion that a 1952-54 serial might still surface? .
It's quite confusing for people who read up on this stuff because loads of places site first Navis as 1952....I take it this is because of those mis-stamped 84xxx 60s versions.
Also you'd think auction houses etc would get their facts right....
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/en-...-navitimer-806-with-aopa-black-gilt-dial-1953
Is there something else going on with this one. Or is this a reference of one of those examples of a 60s piece being misrepresented?

n-theory

Agreed! Until then...😀

FloRolex

I am not a collector Breitling, I only have two three pieces in my collection.
I have this one of which I do not know much.
if you can tell me something.

chronoboy64

Hi, huge congrats. IMHO the 765 AVI deserves it´s own thread but please feel free to post here 👍

chronoboy64

IMO one of the misstamped eraly 60s, pretty nice condition.
The main bridge is signed "WOG". The early V72/V178 are stamped "BOW". That´s another point to identify the misstamped batch.
Best

chronoboy64

So John Glenn‘s Cosmonaute 809 fetched a very strong result at Phillips Auctions

Lazy_Lightning

,


I was wondering how this ranks among the highest priced Breitling sales.

chronoboy64

Very good question but hard to judge IMHO.
There was one at Sotheby´s in the UK on auction on 17.04.2018 (lot 23). It had an estimate of GBP 2.000 - 3.000 (lol).
It sold für GBP 18.750. I also remember one from Australia offered ca. two years ago. it was a very original one with a strong tropical look. They asked for USD 25.000. I don´t know whether it was sold. Rene Kesting (vintage-breitling.com) also offered one on behalf of a friend on IG some time ago. I contacted him and he asked for EUR 25.000 for it. It was a very nice looking piece but might have been polished a bit. I also don´t know whether this one was sold or at what price.

In conclusion IMHO there should be a range from USD 15-30 k for an original early 809 all black depending on the condition. Now it is pure speculation to judge whether the premium of Glenn´s 809 was only caused from the provenence of that particular watch or whether the early 809 are increasing in value in general.

I think the early all black 809 are very diserable and collectable watches because of their rarity and historical imortance. So they might be undervalued in the past because there is a lack of availability. The future will tell ... 👍

Best

Lazy_Lightning

Sadly, I think many would overlook an all black 809 simply because they aren’t familiar with its rarity or significance.

I’d say you’re pretty fortunate to have one in your collection.

budgewink

This is why I love this forum, the knowledge here of real core pieces stands out.
So it seems anything pre 1954 is conceptual? Or open to the notion that a 1952-54 serial might still surface? .
It's quite confusing for people who read up on this stuff because loads of places site first Navis as 1952....I take it this is because of those mis-stamped 84xxx 60s versions.
Also you'd think auction houses etc would get their facts right....
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/en-...-navitimer-806-with-aopa-black-gilt-dial-1953
Is there something else going on with this one. Or is this a reference of one of those examples of a 60s piece being misrepresented?

chronoboy64

Very good question but hard to judge IMHO.
There was one at Sotheby´s in the UK on auction on 17.04.2018 (lot 23). It had an estimate of GBP 2.000 - 3.000 (lol).
It sold für GBP 18.750. I also remember one from Australia offered ca. two years ago. it was a very original one with a strong tropical look. They asked for USD 25.000. I don´t know whether it was sold. Rene Kesting (vintage-breitling.com) also offered one on behalf of a friend on IG some time ago. I contacted him and he asked for EUR 25.000 for it. It was a very nice looking piece but might have been polished a bit. I also don´t know whether this one was sold or at what price.

In conclusion IMHO there should be a range from USD 15-30 k for an original early 809 all black depending on the condition. Now it is pure speculation to judge whether the premium of Glenn´s 809 was only caused from the provenence of that particular watch or whether the early 809 are increasing in value in general.

I think the early all black 809 are very diserable and collectable watches because of their rarity and historical imortance. So they might be undervalued in the past because there is a lack of availability. The future will tell ... 👍

Best

chronoboy64

So John Glenn‘s Cosmonaute 809 fetched a very strong result at Phillips Auctions

budgewink

Hi Hajo, nice thread and amazing run of Breitling watches!

A couple of things I wanted to add, although I don't actually own a Navitimer I research into brands and iconic watches just because I love horology and the hobby in general. Firstly if you want to include all of the Navitimers on the "vintage" line I would suggest the timeline might be from 1952-1979. Before 52 is pre navi AVI/Co-pilot series (Chronomat 786), and anything after 1979 IMO isn't regarded "vintage" Navi as the company was sold off.
So I thought it might be an interesting idea to try and list all of the references on here, i'd like other members if possible to try and add variations or references i've missed (if there is a known resource of this out there please point me in the right direction.) I know there are several dial variations of 806 I can't name but would find it interesting to hear from the guys who know this stuff. Also there is a lot of cross over between movements of the Venus178 and Valjoux72 in the early days, i'm not sure if anyone has any better fixed rules as to when and why?

806 - 1952-54 conceptual stage, Breitling lists the navi as 1952 but no refs have been found before 1954.

1954 - First release. val72 version (highly prized). AOPA dial (Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association)
1955 - Navitimer with "B" logo instead of AOPA wings/val.72
1955 - Venus178 more massly produced.
1959 - mid 60s, Breitling began replacing all black dials with siver sub dial versions.
1961 - 24 hour version released (replaced by ref 809)
1963-65 redesigned hands and dial with Twin-plane logo emblem. (no longer fitted with all black dials)
1967 - 806-36/806E versions found with Valjoux 7736 (silver subdials)
1968-73 - Lip branded versions produced
1969 - 18ct Gold version
1970-71 - Larger subdials more the norm
1975 - Gruen Navi?

809 - 1962 Navi Cosmonaute, redesigned for Scott Carpenter
816 - 1967-68 Navi venus 178. (val72 in smaller numbers ref 816-72)
1806 - 1969 Navi Chrono-matic (fried egg 48mm)
1809 - Navi Cosmonaute.
2100 - Navi Quartz 80190 Yugoslav AF.
2300 - Navi Quartz 80970 Jupiter Iran AF.
3300 - Navi Quartz 80972 New Jupiter revision. Miyota Y652
7806 - Navi early 70s. successor to 806
7808 - Navi 1973.
8806 - Navi Chrono-matic cal.11 date @ 6

Movement changes happened mid 60's Breitling chose to change the Venus 178 with a Valjoux 7740, 1969 came the cal.11.

Also OP you refer to your 7650 as a Navitimer Yachting but I can't find it referenced as a Navitimer anywhere, is it similar to the 812 sometimes referenced as Navitimers because they look similar but don't have Navitimer on the dial. Maybe you could clear this up?