My ex-wife had borderline personality disorder (BPD) as did her mother. She would tell me stories of the horrible manipulations and mind games her mother played with her and her siblings (and father), and sadly she ended up repeating the cycle. The thing about BPD, is the person who has is doesn’t generally know they have a “problem”, everyone else does. They are generally incredibly intelligent and can be the life of the party (they are very shiny). But they can also suck the air out of a room when you are in their sights on a bad day.

I was a self confident and outgoing person when we met. I still had dozens of friends from college and several from my youth. Over the course of the first few years she drove a wedge between me and them, tainted interactions and painted them as selfish and manipulative people (projection)- and I believed her. She created strife with me and my family, and I defended her- all the while not realizing I was being manipulated.
She cheated on me multiple times and blamed me for driving her away- and I would apologize and say I would be better. She wouldn’t try to conceal it, rather she flaunted it as a jab to me. She would defend her cruel and manipulative behavior as her “taking care of herself” or “living her genuine life” because I wasn’t available to her when she needed me or giving her the support she required.
Finally after 10 years, I had no friends, strained relationships with my family and she found someone new at work and said she was leaving me. She started the process of separation, but this time I didn’t stop her. She began trying to blame me for not fighting hard enough to keep her- I told her that I was tired of fighting, constantly disappointing her, and feeling like I was dipped in shit- so I wasn’t going to stop her.
The next year was agony- but in the end we went our separate ways and I began the mourning process. I didn’t realize how miserable I was until I was free of her. It took me about 7 years in therapy (and 4 therapists until I found a good one) to realize I wasn’t the problem- she was unwell and no matter what I did, it wasn’t going to be enough until she got the help she needed.
Despite what I lost in that separation, my life is far more wonderful now than I could have imagined back then.

 

@JwRosenthal I'm so sorry to hear that you went through that.

I say this completely unironically: if BPD was a force of physics, it would destroy the entire planet.

I'm so glad you got out of that situation, and that you got help.

 

For those who aren’t familiar- BPD is a push/pull type of relationship. They need to be the center of attention and will create drama in order to manipulate the players. They will do something so shitty and then make you think you deserved it and they are the victim- they are master manipulators.
But they are usually incredibly dynamic, funny, bright and exciting. They can light up a room and you feel like the most important person on the planet- when they are pursuing you.
The best way to sum up the behavior of someone with BPD is they tell you that you are horrible, they hate you and don’t want to look at you- then when you turn to walk away they say- why are you leaving me?

 

To add:
The number of types of borderline personality disorder has increased pretty significantly. There's a book called Understanding the Borderline Mother that outlines 4 basic "types:" The Waif, Hermit, Queen, and Witch. There's a lot of overlap with NPD. I'm not sure how many identified "types" there are at this point.
It's hard to define exactly what it is- but I like this "definition:"

“It is hard to offer a simple medical definition of BPD, but I’ve heard it brilliantly summed up as “chronic irrationality.” Think severe mood swings, impulsivity, instability, and a whole lot of explosive anger.”

— Patrick Marlborough

 

I have a crack in an upstairs bedroom door from her explosive anger.
One Saturday morning about 7 years in, she wanted pancakes for breakfast. She was upstairs getting ready to take a shower and I yelled up that we didn’t have flour- she said “fine- whatever” in a huff. While she showered I made French toast and it was ready for her on the table when she came down.
She looked at me, then at the French toast and started yelling “I said I wanted pancakes and you said we didn’t have wheat- I said fine. But you went ahead and made what you wanted instead of asking what I may have wanted as an alternative!” And with that she threw the plate of French toast on the floor and stormed back upstairs, slamming the door so hard it put a crack down one of the panels.

I remember standing there, staring at the French toast on the floor- welling up with tears-feeling anger and sadness, feeling totally abused and thinking, I can’t do this, I really can’t do this anymore.

 

That describes my old supervisor to the “T” Eventually everyone started to notice his true character once he left.

 

I’m glad you found the right therapist. For anyone out there looking for a therapist, it does become a shopping game. Sometimes you find the right one on your first go. It all depends on how comfortable you feel with them. We all have different personalities and react differently to others. Sometimes you also do really well for a couple years and then have to go back for a refresher a bit. Never hurts to talk to someone else.

 

I have been in therapy on and off since I was an adolescent- I found it incredibly helpful when I was a child (parents were going through a divorce and saw me shutting down emotionally and acting out). Then again in college for a few years when I found myself crippled by anxiety and stress and failing 2 classes (we didn’t really know what adult ADD was back then). Then again in the last few years of my marriage (she told me I needed to go to work out “my issues”)- he was helpful in learning how to communicate with my wife but I don’t think he really knew what I was dealing with. At the end he became a cheerleader (you’re gonna be ok, man!) which I didn’t need- I needed to figure out why my life was falling apart.

After my marriage dissolved I started the search for another therapist- the first one was a nice fellow, he was mild mannered but didn’t really delve beyond my comfort zone- I could have continued seeing him but I knew I wasn’t going to gain much insight. The second was an older woman, she was very nice but clearly worked more with children & teens than adults- not sure why I was paired with her within her clinic- I gave her 4 appointments before I said I thought it would be better if I found someone else (never be afraid to let a therapist know you aren’t comfortable with them or that you wish to look elsewhere- they are professionals and won’t take it personally).

Finally I asked a friend who she would reccomend and she said her therapist had just started her private practice with another woman who was a LCSW and she was fantastic. I waited 5 months to get in her door and immediately we clicked. There were a lot of elements that made me comfortable with her- we had similar social backgrounds, she was closer to my age, she was more physical in her expressions of empathy or outrage, and most importantly she was funny- she used humor the same way I do- for levity or for self reflection. She was able to tie things together I had told her months/years prior to things we were taking about at that moment- her recall was amazing. Most importantly, she was able to make me look at myself and my behavior objectively, logically- pragmatically. There were reasons I do what I do, the tools I had developed early on to cope with life had served me once, but weren’t working for me anymore- so let’s unpack that and figure out how to develop new tools.

People who say therapy doesn’t work or is a load of bunk- and have actually seen a therapist- haven’t seen the right ones. It takes time to find the match for you. The key is to not lie, sugar coat, manipulate or withhold from your therapist. And it will take more than one session to start delving into the important stuff (the first few sessions are just the getting to know ya’ sessions- it takes a few for them to get the full picture). I usually give 3-4 sessions at the minimum to see if I am able to connect with them. It’s important to remember that they aren’t your friend, you aren’t trying to impress them, and they aren’t going to judge you. They can only be as good as the information you give them, and you have to be willing to endure some serious discomfort when things deep.
That’s said, you can also see a therapist for years and come to a point where the therapeutic relationship has topped out- you have nothing more you can learn from them- so it’s time to move on and find another- that happens.

 

JwRosenthal, excellent post. You hit the nail on the head with that one

 

I've heard that as well, and found it quite helpful. Especially in a relationship with a borderline many of the coping mechanisms we develop are geared towards keeping that person "happy" or meeting their needs. This often means that our own feelings or needs are not met. In cases where our needs are at odds with someone suffering BPD, attempting to meet our own needs can result in really, really nasty, volatile situations with worse outcomes than just.... not meeting our needs.

De facto, we develop behaviors and coping mechanisms that are self-sabotaging. In essence: functional behaviors in a dysfunctional situation, but dysfunctional behaviors in a functional situation.

Especially when you are actively involved with someone who fits the BPD pattern of behavior, you're spending so much time and energy trying to keep them calm or happy or attempting to help them with genuine emotion (because it is genuine--- just highly, highly irrational and out of place), it can be really difficult to even have time or energy to step back and recognize exactly what dynamic is going on.

I think that is exactly why people say that. As you said, you not only have to establish a relationship with a therapist you have to go to a therapist that is informed or aware of whatever issue you may be dealing with. People are people, they aren't instantly experts just because they have a degree. Sometimes it can be really, really hard to identify exactly what an issue is, especially in a case when someone else has gaslit and manipulated you and labeled you for years or longer. Especially in cases like this it can be really difficult to reach out for help, and if you try it once and it just doesn't work I have to wonder how many people just give up.

In my case, I reached out directly to a therapist that deals with people who suffer from BPD and explained my situation. They agreed to talk to me and had decent understanding of what I was dealing with. However, it took me decades for me understand what I was dealing with and even once I understood it took me years and several incidents as an adult, disconnected from the original stuff through time and space, to actually reach out to someone for help.

 

This is a very important point. My ex wasn’t an evil cruel human being (although her behavior was quite cruel)- she truly believed she was being persecuted, employers were out to get her or didn’t understand her, friends and family had agendas to undermine her- she needed me to believe her and be on her side. And on the occasions when I knew both sides of a story and saw how in the wrong she was and try to rationalize with her, it was met with a fury and rage that’s incomprehensible- so you just learn to not say anything after a while to just keep the peace.

Her experience was very real to her- her manipulations, justifications and outbursts were tools she developed to deal with the horribly conflicting information her brain was interpreting. She had moments of lucidity when she would say how it wasn’t fun to live in her brain- I can’t imagine it was.

 

Indeed. Unfortunately, this sort of black-and-white splitting... well, however real the emotions might be, The experience may not be. There's a great quote from the description of "dissociation" on out of the FOG:

"Feelings are just that... Feelings, and may have no basis in fact at all... they are just feelings."


(BTW, out of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) is a great resource for anyone in any sort of a relationship with someone who has a personality disorder that is struggling with managing the relationship or dealing with the aftermath of the relationship)

There is a point at which It genuinely doesn't matter how real someone else's feelings may be. If feelings have a very tenuous connection to reality, or if those feelings mean that you endlessly go from helping comfort an individual to then being attacked by that same individual, it either becomes emotionally exhausting to deal with or it becomes an abusive cycle that helps the other person at your expense.

And unfortunately- as you basically outlined in your first post, the cost of only supporting that individual with struggles that are not entirely rational means that you often become a flying monkey against others or gaslight yourself into believing whatever is said in order to cope. I can relate... it's taken me years to realize that there are members of my family worth having relationships with as a result of this sort of coping.

 

A lot of really brave and insightful posts on this thread. I can relate on two levels. First, I'm a psychologist with a history of clinical practice. Second, I've experienced pretty severe depression most of my life. I don't have data to back this up but it seems fairly common, people getting into psychology to understand what's going on in their own heads or lives (could also be the tendency towards empathy).

I'll definitely admit there's something Dante-esque about knowing all the theories and all the things that should help but not being able to apply them to yourself. It's like I challenge myself to think all the right things but just can't bring myself to believe them.

My wife and I separated last year and are getting a divorce. No major dramas, we just burned out from years of raising young kids and climbing the corporate ladder and covid etc. I feel there's this slow and sad mental health crisis among people (I'd suggest predominantly men) at middle age in this kind of situation. Friends are all busy raising their own family, you need to keep at the top of your game with work and raising kids, parents are at an age where they need your support rather than giving it. So you try to be brave and keep going, try not to be an imposition to people. And time goes by, and people get used to the new status quo. But you're still falling apart, it doesn't get better. It just becomes entrenched, becomes this cold and calm resignation that you'll feel this way forever and something drastic might be needed for anything to change.

A mate from school died over the weekend, killed himself. Another close friend died a few months ago in similar circumstances. I'm starting to understand why people go at this age (I'm 42) - it feels like a time when you realise all that you've aspired to through your life, those hopes and ideals, are illusions or unreliable or a thankless grind. I've been fortunate to achieve most goals re family, finance, career etc but it still feels that way. Apparently, statistically the 40s are the age of poorest mental health / wellbeing among men.

To those members who are blessed with the perspective of being older / getting past this age - does it get any easier, does it get any better?

 

Yes, it does get better. I was with a group of people at work eating lunch, one young woman announced she was turning 30 in a few weeks and how she was dreading it- sooo ooold! I responded that each decade of our lives hold their own host of hurdles, but the way I have seen it is when you are in your 20’s you are trying to prove yourself to the world. In your 30’s you are trying to prove yourself to yourself. And by the time you hit your 40’s you’re at a pivotal point of either becoming comfortable with who you are and leaning into that, or a realize it’s time for change. Some of us have those choices made for us (which can be a good thing for those of us who don’t like change) and some people blow up their lives to seek new horizons- not always successfully. As I am now 51 I can only speak from my experience of having my life upended at 40 and having to start over (relationship and career), but I can only hope that it gets even better from here. I have already started yelling at total strangers when I see them acting badly in public- so that fear of being perceived has finally melted away.

 

At least it will get different. Can you ever think of a long stretch in time life remained exactly the same. I’ve talked to numerous people who attempted suicide and most of them said what drove them to the act was thinking that as things were now they would always be. Causes one to lose hope. No light at the end of the tunnel.
Things always happen to change our perspective, significant loss, significant gain, serious health issue, living through a serious health issue and coming out ok, and the list goes on. It’s very sad to lose a friend to suicide. I lost two friends to suicide one whom I found. It made me question a lot of things and stuck in my head for a long time.
Words can’t assuage your anguish but I can tell you know 99% of the time I only think of the good times I had with my buddies who passed.
So the only real guarantee is things will different for you and chances are that will include happiness and more of the sad stuff we have to deal with.

My condolences on your recent loses. Hang in there, we never know what’s going to happen next but it always does and it never asks our permission.

 

I feel you my friend, i really do...this brought back a few memories.

I'd bought her an engagement ring, a wedding band & a diamond pendant for the wedding. ( I left before it happened) She came up to me while her sister was around & announced that she wanted to buy me a watch for the wedding. I declined, knowing her, and said i was happy with what i had & didn't know anything about watches. This was 20 years ago, before i started collecting. She insisted, & her sister added that if she is so kind as to offer, i should be gracious & accept it. So i was told to ask my friends what i should get.

Back then, you could get an Air King brand new for below USD$3000, each of the items i bought her cost more than that. I asked a few friends what they recommended for 1 watch to last your whole life. They all said to just get a rolex.

So a week goes by & she asks me if i'd asked my friends, i said i did.
"and what did they say?"
"they said if it was just 1 watch to last a lifetime, that ishould get a rolex."
"ARE YOU CRAZY? I'M NOT BUYING YOU A ROLEX, YOU ARE BUYING ME ONE."

She had a smile on her face as she shouted, happy that her trap worked like she intended.

 

@machamp6650 it does get easier, though my journey through my 40’s wasn’t easy. I was dealing with some of the things accurately described by @JwRosenthal , and then some. I have found that, for me, the mid-50’s on have been tremendously freeing. Getting there took a lot of work, reflection, healing, and a willingness to let go.

I spent three years in my early 50’s with a Ph.D counselor who specializes in trauma therapy. Those sessions were gritty, tough, emotional, and raw. And they likely saved my life.

About 6 months after I reached the appropriate healing mark and my regular sessions had come to a close, the not-for-profit organization asked if I’d be willing to assist in raising funds for a much needed new facility and additional staff. I agreed to write a piece that they have used to help successfully raise both awareness and funding. That piece is below. It reveals much about my past and is deeply personal. I only post it here in the off chance that it might be of some help and encouragement to someone, either now or in the future.

I still am in contact with my therapist and she checks on me from time to time. Here is the piece.
**********

“George Elliot once wrote the now commonly used phrase “Never judge a book by its cover”. While written literally at the time, modern society uses it to discourage the judgment of a disheveled person’s worth or character because of their appearance.

My story is the inverse. On the outside, I was gifted in the art of appearing to having it all together: successful marriage and children, successful and diverse in professional accomplishments, strong, the man you wanted in your corner when things were tough… While those things were all true, I was also gifted in the art hiding deeply held secrets, some of which I was unaware, that made me feel internally weak and less of a man.

For decades I carried the emotional baggage of multiple events of child sexual molestation. Buried deeply, I was adept at the art of hiding them, even from myself.

As an adult, I once again experience sexual battery. That event rocked me in ways I couldn’t articulate, let alone understand. I was still successful, still high-functioning, and still dying on the inside.

The trauma pushed the pain and emotion once again to the surface. This time the pain was worse. Hopelessness became my internal theme and truthfully, I occasionally considered ending the pain and hopelessness. I knew I needed help. But how could someone like me, a book with an immaculate cover, admit that I needed help?

Even though I didn’t even understand what I needed, where to turn, or how to articulate my despair, I looked up potential resources for help (Google is a wonderful thing at times). I found an 800 number, and figured that the easiest way was to talk with someone far away, someone who didn’t know me. And they immediately pointed me to (name redacted) Counseling (they were regionally local). So on a fateful morning, I paced outside alone for over an hour, weighing whether I was going to make a call that I knew I’d have to reveal things that I had hidden for so long or whether I was just going to continue to just survive…but only barely.

I spent the next three years with (name redacted). Through their consummate expertise and care, I slowly was able to find and unbox things deeply buried. It was only then that I began the journey to true healing and recovery. Eventually shame was replaced with pride, guilt was replaced with the understanding that I wasn’t at fault, and what I thought was weakness was replaced with the understanding of true strength.

(Name redacted) Counseling, and their staff make life-giving changes to people in ways that the public will rarely ever see. Lives are restored. Healing and understanding are imparted each and every day to victims of sexual trauma in ways that move them from merely surviving to a place of thriving.

I now thrive. I am no longer ashamed of my past, recognizing that it is a part of the fabric of which my life is woven. And it is solely due to the Grace of God and the ministries of (name redacted) that I am here.

Make no mistake; there are children and adults that walk among you each and every day that have experienced sexual abuse and trauma in ways that many of you cannot imagine. They are struggling right now trying to determine how to get through the next hour, the next day, the next week. Without your generous support, many victims won’t receive the consummate professional care that (name redacted) provide. They desperately need your help…and without it, some won’t make it.

I am now a vocal and staunch advocate for victims of sexual abuse and trauma. My role is to help ensure that society no longer has the luxury of pretending that such atrocities only happen somewhere else in someone else’s community. Please join me in the battle that matters. Shattered and vulnerable lives are silently hoping for a hero to rescue them. That hero is you.”
*********
The toughest question I was ever asked came from my therapist in the final stages of my healing journey. Her question was simply this: “If you could go back and change those events in your life, would you?” After much thought, my answer was that, while I wouldn’t want to re-live them, I wouldn’t undo them because they helped shape the man I am today.

If you need help, please seek it. It is a sign of strength, not weakness. If you don’t need it, learn to recognize those around you that do. You won’t have to look far. Peace and healing to you all. -CBM

 

@CBM1590 Rick... I'm sorry you went through that. No one should ever have to experience a betrayal of that magnitude.