Because We Need To Talk About It

Walrus · Nov 4, 2024

I visited a family member with advanced Alzheimer’s this weekend. I am her conservator I was setting up hospice services. It’s more for the extra layers of care than immediate “comfort” services although she recently broke her hip. Anyway regular communication is no longer possible and little of her original personality exists.
She is kinda, for the last couple years” comfortable in her own little world.

However I started playing songs we would listen together back when I was growing up. I started with “yellow submarine” and then some songs from her era. She became animated and would even clap accurately to the beat. She attempted to sing the words with me. How powerful is music to us? Even as our minds are wiped clean there is a basic reaction to music. I found it interesting and was glad I found a way to connect. I have asked a few doctors but there are many medical mysteries about Alzheimer’s. All that money they spent on the brain plaque connection may be 100% wrong although a handful of those who suffer from Alzheimer’s will react to the treatments for some reason. Not really going anywhere with this, kinda thinking out loud.

noelekal · Nov 4, 2024

Walrus · Nov 4, 2024

noelekal

Yes interesting. Things remain apparently. Another thing I found with the recent fractured hip incident is people with Alzheimer’s develop a very high tolerance to pain. I talked to a very compassionate orthopedic surgeon who stated if I had the same hip fracture I would be withering in pain unable to move but my family member reported no pain nor exhibited signs of discomfort. I could have passed on the surgery but they warned me if the fracture spread she would require a total hip replacement which she probably could not tolerate.

So three screws were placed to keep the fracture from spreading and upon waking up from the anesthesia my family again showed no signs of discomfort. Perhaps these are small blessings that come along with a terrible illness.

PatinaPete · Nov 11, 2024

JwRosenthal
For those who aren’t familiar- BPD is a push/pull type of relationship. They need to be the center of attention and will create drama in order to manipulate the players. They will do something so shitty and then make you think you deserved it and they are the victim- they are master manipulators.
But they are usually incredibly dynamic, funny, bright and exciting. They can light up a room and you feel like the most important person on the planet- when they are pursuing you.
The best way to sum up the behavior of someone with BPD is they tell you that you are horrible, they hate you and don’t want to look at you- then when you turn to walk away they say- why are you leaving me?

A Slice Of Life Looking Out the BPD/Cluster C Prism

It's morning. I open my eyes, turn off my alarm. The first thing I notice is whether you texted me or not.

You did? Great! You earned a “Good morning” and a response from me. It makes me so happy to have you in my life. I love you and want you to know that.

You didn't? Whoops. Guess I'm ignoring you until you text me since apparently you don't give a shit about me. Maaaybe I’m having a good day and I text you “Good morning” at least, but with no emojis so you know how hurt I am. I check my phone whenever I can, and every minute you don't text me I get angrier. Then I get impatient. Then I get scared. Did something happen to you? Did I do something wrong? Are you angry with me? I go over every possible way I could have upset you. I get angry with myself. I debate if I should text you again or if I should wait. What if I appear clingy? What if I scare you away? But what if you're waiting to hear from me? I go from being angry with you to feeling jealous because whatever you're doing is more important than me. Then I get sad over that. Then I hate you. Then I hate myself. Then I plan to cut you out of my life.

Oh, you responded!! — Who cares. I'll ignore you like you ignored me. Asshole. You're fine. You could have texted me all this time and not made me worry.

Five minutes later I respond like nothing ever happened and let you know nothing about my thought process at all. Because I'm ashamed. I know it's not healthy. I know it's wrong. But it's how I feel.

JwRosenthal · Nov 11, 2024

PatinaPete
A Slice Of Life Looking Out the BPD/Cluster C Prism

It's morning. I open my eyes, turn off my alarm. The first thing I notice is whether you texted me or not.

You did? Great! You earned a “Good morning” and a response from me. It makes me so happy to have you in my life. I love you and want you to know that.

You didn't? Whoops. Guess I'm ignoring you until you text me since apparently you don't give a shit about me. Maaaybe I’m having a good day and I text you “Good morning” at least, but with no emojis so you know how hurt I am. I check my phone whenever I can, and every minute you don't text me I get angrier. Then I get impatient. Then I get scared. Did something happen to you? Did I do something wrong? Are you angry with me? I go over every possible way I could have upset you. I get angry with myself. I debate if I should text you again or if I should wait. What if I appear clingy? What if I scare you away? But what if you're waiting to hear from me? I go from being angry with you to feeling jealous because whatever you're doing is more important than me. Then I get sad over that. Then I hate you. Then I hate myself. Then I plan to cut you out of my life.

Oh, you responded!! — Who cares. I'll ignore you like you ignored me. Asshole. You're fine. You could have texted me all this time and not made me worry.

Five minutes later I respond like nothing ever happened and let you know nothing about my thought process at all. Because I'm ashamed. I know it's not healthy. I know it's wrong. But it's how I feel.

This just gave me horrible anxiety- PTSD. You nailed it.

PatinaPete · Nov 11, 2024

JwRosenthal
This just gave me horrible anxiety- PTSD. You nailed it.

Sorry if that was a little too vivid. My prism is that of an adopted kid. I think our society completely ignores adoption and foster, considering it an actual solution when both those systems have a remarkably poor track records. Anyone who thinks expanding those systems is a solution, has never talked to an adult adoptee or foster about it.

Imagine at the point when every single cell is fully activated within your being, the moment of your birth from an aqueous environment to an air one, every single sense, and every single emotion is on full tilt boogie, and all you want to hear is the same soothing voice, drink the same soothing milk, and it's nowhere to be found.

Adopted kids are left in a perpetual state of outstretched arms reaching for their birth mothers, frozen in time, needing what every infant needs in the moments of birth. And is denied. And is broken from the beginning.

For people who have suffered this trauma, what would be the repair? It's a primordial abandonment, a primitive loss of trust.

ErichPryde · Nov 11, 2024

PatinaPete
A Slice Of Life Looking Out the BPD/Cluster C Prism

It's morning. I open my eyes, turn off my alarm. The first thing I notice is whether you texted me or not.

You did? Great! You earned a “Good morning” and a response from me. It makes me so happy to have you in my life. I love you and want you to know that.

You didn't? Whoops. Guess I'm ignoring you until you text me since apparently you don't give a shit about me. Maaaybe I’m having a good day and I text you “Good morning” at least, but with no emojis so you know how hurt I am. I check my phone whenever I can, and every minute you don't text me I get angrier. Then I get impatient. Then I get scared. Did something happen to you? Did I do something wrong? Are you angry with me? I go over every possible way I could have upset you. I get angry with myself. I debate if I should text you again or if I should wait. What if I appear clingy? What if I scare you away? But what if you're waiting to hear from me? I go from being angry with you to feeling jealous because whatever you're doing is more important than me. Then I get sad over that. Then I hate you. Then I hate myself. Then I plan to cut you out of my life.

Oh, you responded!! — Who cares. I'll ignore you like you ignored me. Asshole. You're fine. You could have texted me all this time and not made me worry.

Five minutes later I respond like nothing ever happened and let you know nothing about my thought process at all. Because I'm ashamed. I know it's not healthy. I know it's wrong. But it's how I feel.

I have to admit to a bit of anxiety reading this as well. There's a sort of hyperawareness to being on the receiving end of this, because you know that the thought process is going on, and you learn to fear the potential explosive outburst that may come with it, because no matter how many positive and affirming actions you take at the expense of your own feelings, you're eventually going to be on the receiving end of some sort of devaluation or splitting event.

The perspectives here are interesting.

My perspective is that of someone who grew up with a mother like this. Constantly having to monitor and validate that person's emotions when you can barely do that for yourself. Being the scapegoat when I would not put her feelings before mine or just when she needed an emotional outlet for her dysfunctional ability to express her pain, anger, and rage. You suggest imagining a situation where every cell is active, where every emotion is full-tilt... understanding that and how I responded to it on a daily basis was my childhood.

By sharing this, I don't mean to make any less of your experience. I'm so sorry you went through that. It's likely I relate in a lot of ways. While I was not adopted, I grew up in a very broken home. I also understand that children in those sorts of situations don't get the support they need... it's something our parents, adopted or birth, are supposed to supply for us. I don't know if that helps you at all, but it's completely possible to have an actual birth mother and still not get the soothing voice that we so desperately need as children.

I don't know what the solution is, but I'm glad you're here and alive.

PatinaPete · Nov 11, 2024

ErichPryde
My perspective is that of someone who grew up with a mother like this. Constantly having to monitor and validate that person's emotions when you can barely do that for yourself. Being the scapegoat when I would not put her feelings before mine or just when she needed an emotional outlet for her dysfunctional ability to express her pain, anger, and rage. You suggest imagining a situation where every cell is active, where every emotion is full-tilt... understanding that and how I responded to it on a daily basis was my childhood.

By sharing this, I don't mean to make any less of your experience. I'm so sorry you went through that. It's likely I relate in a lot of ways. While I was not adopted, I grew up in a very broken home. I also understand that children in those sorts of situations don't get the support they need... it's something our parents, adopted or birth, are supposed to supply for us. I don't know if that helps you at all, but it's completely possible to have an actual birth mother and still not get the soothing voice that we so desperately need as children.

I don't know what the solution is, but I'm glad you're here and alive.

I have no doubt these are similar in so many ways and I empathize. A lot of the kids I grew up with came from completely shattered homes. I look back and can see it now, but back then we were all just kids getting ground up.

ahartfie · Nov 11, 2024

PatinaPete
I have no doubt these are similar in so many ways and I empathize. A lot of the kids I grew up with came from completely shattered homes. I look back and can see it now, but back then we were all just kids getting ground up.

We just didn’t know it wasn’t “normal.” Lord knows my childhood wasn’t.

Walrus · Nov 11, 2024

Wow. Reading this is pretty intense. When I took my most recent job about 4-5 years ago they asked me which patients I “did not like to work with” I replied male BPD and sex offenders. BPD is primarily an illness of females. I just had one personality DO are very hard to treat as nothing is their fault of course.
But the males are next level as no one knows what the hec to do with them. Anyway my female BPD patient I had pushed her through the system as she was high risk pregnancy by rights she would have to stay with us until her 3rd trimester but I gathered medical documents and put pressure on the system to move her a step closer to housing. I had done all I could at that point but it wasn’t good enough. She expected immediate results and tried to get me with personal and racial insults seeing if she could find a week spot to hit. I’m impervious to that nonsense from clients so she said she was going to the mayor and her lawyers to get me. I wished her luck.
She then went out and escalated on the direct care staff, physically threatened them which earned her discharge.
The killer is the next day, not even 24hrs after her DC I got the email that the pressure I had applied had worked and they were ready to present her for housing.

I don’t take joy in these situations I don’t like to think of a women with a high risk pregnancy on the streets but we have to draw the line with physical threats.

So know I have three BPD cases and 3 or 4 sex offenders I can’t imagine you guys/girls living with someone like that for years as tbh a couple hour session with one of them leaves me completely drained.

I’m not mad at my job for loading me up with them but by telling them the clients I don’t care to work with I showed my cards about who I had experience with so I should have kept my damn mouth shut just said “I like everyone” or something generic.

Damn talk about tough people to work with BPD takes the cake although un medicated schizophrenia ain’t no walk in the park.

I was talking to a clinician from John Hopkins they are using AI in developing treatments they ran one program for me it was pretty interesting. Some are actively being used mostly cognitive behavioral stuff. I actually don’t think it was John Hopkins but I can’t remember exactly what school/hospital and John Hopkins always sounds good.

JwRosenthal · Nov 11, 2024

Walrus
Wow. Reading this is pretty intense. When I took my most recent job about 4-5 years ago they asked me which patients I “did not like to work with” I replied male BPD and sex offenders. BPD is primarily an illness of females. I just had one personality DO are very hard to treat as nothing is their fault of course.
But the males are next level as no one knows what the hec to do with them. Anyway my female BPD patient I had pushed her through the system as she was high risk pregnancy by rights she would have to stay with us until her 3rd trimester but I gathered medical documents and put pressure on the system to move her a step closer to housing. I had done all I could at that point but it wasn’t good enough. She expected immediate results and tried to get me with personal and racial insults seeing if she could find a week spot to hit. I’m impervious to that nonsense from clients so she said she was going to the mayor and her lawyers to get me. I wished her luck.
She then went out and escalated on the direct care staff, physically threatened them which earned her discharge.
The killer is the next day, not even 24hrs after her DC I got the email that the pressure I had applied had worked and they were ready to present her for housing.

I don’t take joy in these situations I don’t like to think of a women with a high risk pregnancy on the streets but we have to draw the line with physical threats.

So know I have three BPD cases and 3 or 4 sex offenders I can’t imagine you guys/girls living with someone like that for years as tbh a couple hour session with one of them leaves me completely drained.

I’m not mad at my job for loading me up with them but by telling them the clients I don’t care to work with I showed my cards about who I had experience with so I should have kept my damn mouth shut just said “I like everyone” or something generic.

Damn talk about tough people to work with BPD takes the cake although un medicated schizophrenia ain’t no walk in the park.

I was talking to a clinician from John Hopkins they are using AI in developing treatments they ran one program for me it was pretty interesting. Some are actively being used mostly cognitive behavioral stuff. I actually don’t think it was John Hopkins but I can’t remember exactly what school/hospital and John Hopkins always sounds good.

Yyyup. You were dealing with the ire end of it- this personal was on the downward spiral and has apparently burned all their bridges.

Many people with BPD are highly functioning and if you met them socially you would think they are charming, charismatic, attractive, engaging and funny- that was my ex. It’s when you get close that the other end comes out and they can make you beleive it is your fault- you are the one that is causing their trauma resulting in outbursts- you need to do better.
When I told people we were getting divorced they were shocked “you both were so perfect for each other”, “you seemed so happy”, “I didn’t think anything was wrong”- uh-huh, those of us who live with someone who has BPD also learn how to put on the mask.

Walrus · Nov 11, 2024

JwRosenthal
Yyyup. You were dealing with the ire end of it- this personal was on the downward spiral and has apparently burned all their bridges.

Many people with BPD are highly functioning and if you met them socially you would think they are charming, charismatic, attractive, engaging and funny- that was my ex. It’s when you get close that the other end comes out and they can make you beleive it is your fault- you are the one that is causing their trauma resulting in outbursts- you need to do better.
When I told people we were getting divorced they were shocked “you both were so perfect for each other”, “you seemed so happy”, “I didn’t think anything was wrong”- uh-huh, those of us who live with someone who has BPD also learn how to put on the mask.

I never deal with “charming, social, attractive, funny and if they were at that point and burned bridges they did it by 15y.o. But then again most have a handful of diagnosis. This is the part I deal with

Results: Self-mutilation refers to the deliberate, direct destruction or alteration of one's body tissue without conscious suicidal intent. This pattern of behaviour is common in BPD (50 to 80% of cases) and is frequently repetitive (more than 41% of patients make more than 50 self-mutilations). The most common form of self-mutilation behaviour is cutting, but bruising, burning, head banging or biting are not unusual. The functions of self-mutilation are variable: it provides relief from negative mood states, reduces distress, obtains care from other people as well as therapists and expresses emotions in a symbolic fashion. The rate of suicide in clinical samples of BPD is of around 5 to 10%. This rate is about 400 times that of the general population. Authors estimated that 40 to 85% of borderline patients carry out suicide attempts that are usually multiple (average=3). The relationships between self-mutilation and suicide are paradoxical. Some authors identify self-mutilation as a protective factor against suicide. Self-mutilation behaviour can be defined as an attenuated form of suicide ("focal suicide"). In this way, self-mutilation plays the role of an anti-suicide act, allowing patients to emerge from their dissociation and to feel that they are living again. The risk of suicide will not increase so long as self-mutilation produces the expected relief. Nevertheless, most of the authors exhibit self-mutilation as a risk factor of completed suicide.

PatinaPete · Nov 12, 2024

ahartfie
We just didn’t know it wasn’t “normal.” Lord knows my childhood wasn’t.

Why is Billy Joel singing a song about Allentown? I live close to there. Oh god, what is he saying? Holy shit, is that my back story? Dad, is this pretty much where we came from? Why are you looking away now? Did you lie to me? Oh wait EVERYONE lied to me? Oh hell.

So on top of everything else you discover that every construct in your entire life is a fabrication. They'll tell you it was for your own good.

The Truman Show.

vaultair · Nov 14, 2024

PatinaPete
Why is Billy Joel singing a song about Allentown? I live close to there. Oh god, what is he saying? Holy shit, is that my back story? Dad, is this pretty much where we came from? Why are you looking away now? Did you lie to me? Oh wait EVERYONE lied to me? Oh hell.

So on top of everything else you discover that every construct in your entire life is a fabrication. They'll tell you it was for your own good.

The Truman Show.

Vulnerability is beautiful even though it might be unpleasant. Nothing that is beautiful isn't vulnerable.