I just had this Seamaster pre De Ville serviced for 180€ in Paris.
I can state, 100% without doubt, that the service you received for $125 is not the service you think you were after...
So you seem to have personally dealt with that watchmaker before... Or I hope that's what you are trying to say.
Nope, I’m saying that in Canada you can’t properly service a watch to a level that is deemed appropriate by Swiss standards (Rolex, Omega, WOSTEP) and feed your family charging those prices. I don’t care what anyone says - it’s impossible.
As you "don't care what anyone says", I won't bother arguing with you.
Well, you can try and convince me. I just don’t think you’ll get too far.
I won't bother. It's strange to bump into someone who can't seem to differentiate the two notions of price and value on a forum like this one.
It may have something to do with the $125 services that fix all day long... I agree that value is there to be had. You can certainly pay too much for things. $25,000 to service a vintage Daytona at Rolex is ‘too much’ in my opinion. Should a base service on a vintage Omega cost $1000 plus parts? No, I don’t think it should. But you cannot perform all the steps necessary and up keep a shop to any standard charging those prices.
I have a watchmaker friend who changes all his oils before the expire (as all should), and other ‘watchmakers’ were lining up to take them of his hands. Free oil, the thought. Great! I ask you - who do you want to use to service your treasured possessions?
So you are assuming that all good watchmakers have a shop, which is another mistake. You are also assuming that all good watchmakers are good businessmen or accountants, which is not the case. The only one absolutely useless variable in assessing the quality of service delivered by a watchmaker is the price charged for the service.
Yes, all watchmakers have a shop. It might be in their basement or from their house. But they all have a shop. Mines in my house. The location of a workshop will change the rent paid but not the running costs. I’m not assuming they are good businessmen. Most watchmakers aren’t in my experience.
My original statement still stands.
I wouldn't consider changing those hands. As member padders mentioned, that is an unusual Japanese market model variation and I would suggest keeping it original. Perhaps add another Omega to your collection that sports hands you prefer? Everyone needs more than one Omega anyways
I would be a little careful with statements like this. I agree that a professional repair shop will not be able to charge this much for a good service and stay in business, and that is obviously your perspective. However, different people approach the hobby from different places and I'm not going to judge them for it. We don't really know what this member was "after" and we don't know whether the watchmaker is a professional or a hobbyist. So I will reserve judgement.
Personally, if I am going to have a watch serviced, I want the job done right, and I will pay for it. Someone else, if their budget is limited, and they don't plan to wear the watch very often (e.g. a few times a year), may be satisfied just to get the watch running reasonably well. Similarly, there are retired watchmakers or hobbyists who will service watches at a low price for a small circle of friends and acquaintances. I know a lot of people like this frankly. I'm not under the illusion that the hobbyists have the full set of skills that a fully trained watchmaker has, but some of them have serviced 100s of watches over decades, and have become pretty proficient at doing a basic COA service.
A COA isn’t something that exists on a vintage watch. To do a job properly, certain criteria need to be met. There is a right way to do things and wrong way to do things. Plain and simple. Leaving worn and damaged components in a watch is not the right way to do things. I’m sure the Swiss watch industry would back me up on that one. Punching the side of a worn barrel bushing is a very common practice. It doesn’t make it right. It’s wrong.
Vintage watches always need extra work. Bushings, escapement adjustments, parts changed, etc. And for that money those things can’t be happening.
People obviously have the right to use whoever they want to service their vintage watches but don’t think that the service your getting is necessarily the one you are expecting. That’s all I’m trying to say.
Who told you that parts needed to be changed?
Do you always have to assume things that you don't know?
Just read my post.
I did, twice. You told that parts need to be changed and that if someone paid $125 for a service, that watchmaker is probably lazy.
But how do you know that parts needed to be changed for that particular watch?
No, you didn’t read my post.
I just did for the third time and it's getting more and more absurd the more I read it.
OK, I get that you don't like the fact that people disagree with you, since you are an expert on watch repair, but you can't browbeat collectors into your point of view. You've made your pitch and you are just repeating yourself. Instead of telling us that we are wrong, maybe you should look at membership in the forum as a way to understand the mindset of collectors. You don't know what people are "expecting". If you have read other threads in this forum, you already know that there is a big debate amongst collectors about whether it is wise to have a running vintage watch serviced at all (I don't agree with this BTW), partly because of distrust about what a watchmaker will do to their watch. It does not surprise me that some people would want the minimum done to get a watch running, both because of expense and also because of the trust issue.
Keep in mind that some people are trying to preserve collections of hundreds of vintage watches, some of which may have little monetary value. You seem to have a fairly narrow and precious idea about the "right way" to do things, perhaps based on the way you were trained. This is admirable in a way, but it is not the way that everyone thinks. Give it another 20 years, and I think you may develop a more tolerant perspective of the quirks of various collectors.
I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. I’m all for differing opinions and welcome them. I have views on polishing and am more than happy for people to disagree with me on them. I have views on dial restorations, etc. Again, more than happy to have people disagree and I respect all those opinions.
Im not trying to browbeat anyone into my way of thinking. I’ve dealt with hundreds of collectors during my career and understand the collector mindset more than you will know.
You mentioned that collectors have mistrust of watchmakers - do you think maybe that’s why I’m so passionate about the subject? Do you think that may be the reason I put forth my argument? I am trained in an industry overrun with cowboys and hacks that ruin it for everyone.
Yes, I do have a narrow idea of the right way to do things - because when it comes to vintage watches that people love and cherish, why would anyone chose the wrong way to do it? That just seems absurd...
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