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As a vintage Omega collector how do you feel about Omega / Swatch Group?

kaplan
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Thanks for your response

At the time of my first and only extract order, I contacted Omega through the website, went back and forth but no result.

It does make sense to try again, this time contacting the museum directly - the problem is I got the extract from the seller, so it'll be more challenging asking them to amend it and issue a detailed one to me. Worth a try though instead of keeping onto the resentment
 
tyrantlizardrex
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It's also worth noting that while Omega and the Swatch Group are large organisations, the Museum and Heritage teams are tiny. As in less than 5 people.

So whilst it might be frustrating that some folks who maybe have relationships with the people who work there get a faster and sometimes maybe more detailed response, this isn't a conspiracy - its a small group of humans who are low on resources being kind to their friends occasionally, and trying to do the best by everyone else at the same time.

Where it's tempting to see a grand structure that's out to screw people over, there's often a very small group of people just trying to do the best they can...
 
dsio
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tyrantlizardrex tyrantlizardrex
It's also worth noting that while Omega and the Swatch Group are large organisations, the Museum and Heritage teams are tiny. As in less than 5 people.

So whilst it might be frustrating that some folks who maybe have relationships with the people who work there get a faster and sometimes maybe more detailed response, this isn't a conspiracy - its a small group of humans who are low on resources being kind to their friends occasionally, and trying to do the best by everyone else at the same time.

Where it's tempting to see a grand structure that's out to screw people over, there's often a very small group of people just trying to do the best they can...
Indeed, some of them like Petros are in high demand too as he’s both an incredible public speaker and in my view the best brand ambassador they have while also having so many other hats he wears relating to the museum.
 
kaplan
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Thanks for the replies, I feel a lot better and will try to start a conversation by email regarding a curious watch - I'll share the results on the vintage forum if it sheds any historic light
 
watchyouwant
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kaplan kaplan
Thanks for the replies, I feel a lot better and will try to start a conversation by email regarding a curious watch - I'll share the results on the vintage forum if it sheds any historic light

You do that. Just remember: Omega Vintage owes you nothing. Asking them for information ( for Money or not ) about a specific Watch is limited to their research criteria. And that does NOT include Dials. Or Hands. Period. If they have special mentions in their vintage Books and want to share it with you, excellent. If they want to protect their Company against demands arising from that extra shared information ( others want / demand the same treatment ; collectors think, they sit on a Goldmine with special Dials .... ) , you can always pay a lot more, send your Watch to Switzerland for Authentication and get the best and most credible information about your watch from the Manufacturer . That's what some Well known Auction Houses do , if necessary. Entirely up to you. And, again: They owe you nothing outside their well known search criteria. Movement number unlocks basic information. You consent by ordering the EoA . Sometimes, when your number is not in the Archive, they refund your money. Which is a gesture, because they have done the work , searching for you. Good luck ! And, for what it's worth: Let it go.
 
sathomasga
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Archer Archer
In fact the OP in the thread got his resolved by using regular contacts from what I see there.

Yep. Completely true. (I'm the OP.)
 
sathomasga
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I will also add my own observations to this thread. My experience with Omega has not been perfect.

1. When I went to the local Omega Boutique (Atlanta) to order an Extract of the Archives, the salesperson was super nice but totally clueless. I had to explain what a EoA was to him.

2. The boutique then insisted that they had to retain possession of the actual watch in order to send it to KP, despite the fact that I had complete information (serial, reference, photos, etc.).

3. When I did receive the extract, it had a pretty serious error. (Dating a WW2 pilot's watch to 1948 is about as serious as it can get.)

But:

Everyone at Omega with whom I dealt was unfailing polite, friendly, and genuinely doing their best to make me happy. Regarding 1, the salesperson was brand new (still "in training") and seemed very interested in learning about the process. He was also extremely complementary, and genuinely seemed to love seeing my watch. He noted the pheon engraved on the caseback and took a NTTD out of the display to show my wife the pheon on its dial. He said it was exciting to see a "real one" for the first time. Regarding 2, the boutique called me back the very next day and apologized for their error; I was able to pick up the watch that day. (Presumably KP told them "Nah, we're good.") And regarding 3, despite getting an onsolicited email from some random guy on the Internet, the heritage folks went to the trouble of re-doing their research, discovering the error, and sending me both a new paper extract and a digital copy immediately. (I don't know how to get a digital copy otherwise in the US.)

Given the circumstances, I think the Omega folks acquitted themselves fine.
 
SpeedyPhill
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tyrantlizardrex tyrantlizardrex
It's also worth noting that while Omega and the Swatch Group are large organisations, the Museum and Heritage teams are tiny. As in less than 5 people.

So whilst it might be frustrating that some folks who maybe have relationships with the people who work there get a faster and sometimes maybe more detailed response, this isn't a conspiracy - its a small group of humans who are low on resources being kind to their friends occasionally, and trying to do the best by everyone else at the same time.

Where it's tempting to see a grand structure that's out to screw people over, there's often a very small group of people just trying to do the best they can...
👍
Indeed and at least there's a point-of-contact for all our Omega questions,but in some (historical) cases they get easily rid by saying;
" we decided not to communicate around this topic anymore ".
Their good right of course...
 
dsio
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SpeedyPhill SpeedyPhill
👍
Indeed and at least there's a point-of-contact for all our Omega questions,but in some (historical) cases they get easily rid by saying;
" we decided not to communicate around this topic anymore ".
Their good right of course...
So they use the same approach most of your dates do Phil? 😁

J/K mate
 
J
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Late to this party, (and relatively new to horology) but I'm a little bewildered by the presumption the manufacturer is the primary information repository here. It's remarkably rare that a maker will maintain and make available records detailing the production of an item. Is it normal to expect a watchmaker to provide this, or only the major brands? Isn't this more commonly handled as a matter of provenance, with greater information and inference based on the histories of ownership subsequent to purchase? I guess I understand how rarity might be gauged by the numbers of items produced, but at the end of the day, isn't it really expressed by the numbers of items that have survived, that are now known and available?
 
dsio
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J jmgorman
Late to this party, (and relatively new to horology) but I'm a little bewildered by the presumption the manufacturer is the primary information repository here. It's remarkably rare that a maker will maintain and make available records detailing the production of an item. Is it normal to expect a watchmaker to provide this, or only the major brands? Isn't this more commonly handled as a matter of provenance, with greater information and inference based on the histories of ownership subsequent to purchase? I guess I understand how rarity might be gauged by the numbers of items produced, but at the end of the day, isn't it really expressed by the numbers of items that have survived, that are now known and available?
Things like cars and watches tend to have a bit more information and record keeping given that there is an expectation of long term after sales support and maintenance. A lot of other items are either disposable or unimportant but watches are likely to be serviced regularly for a lot of years so having details on it doesn’t hurt.
 
J
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dsio dsio
Things like cars and watches tend to have a bit more information and record keeping given that there is an expectation of long term after sales support and maintenance. A lot of other items are either disposable or unimportant but watches are likely to be serviced regularly for a lot of years so having details on it doesn’t hurt.

I get that, but records are lost all of the time. Across lots of industries, there is a major mid-20th-c gap in record keeping, between when everything was kept in a series of giant ledgers, to when archivists were hired to sort out materials that might be useful beyond mandated records-retention schedules. And so many times, we know a single flood, fire, or rapid move resulted in radical loss of records (so many US federal agencies lost records in 1973,) so it seems improbable to me that relying on the manufacturer would be the standard of documentation in the field. I'm surprised there isn't a greater emphasis on provenance, akin to the cultural arts sector.
 
dsio
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J jmgorman
I get that, but records are lost all of the time. Across lots of industries, there is a major mid-20th-c gap in record keeping, between when everything was kept in a series of giant ledgers, to when archivists were hired to sort out materials that might be useful beyond mandated records-retention schedules. And so many times, we know a single flood, fire, or rapid move resulted in radical loss of records (so many US federal agencies lost records in 1973,) so it seems improbable to me that relying on the manufacturer would be the standard of documentation in the field. I'm surprised there isn't a greater emphasis on provenance, akin to the cultural arts sector.
Yea that’s definitely true in some cases for Swiss watches too, there are some big Speedmaster holes due to Lemanias records not being as complete as the other omega records and there are more than a few brands that lost records in fires over the years, which I suppose becomes a fairly high probability over a long enough span of decades.
 
watchyouwant
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J jmgorman
I get that, but records are lost all of the time. Across lots of industries, there is a major mid-20th-c gap in record keeping, between when everything was kept in a series of giant ledgers, to when archivists were hired to sort out materials that might be useful beyond mandated records-retention schedules. And so many times, we know a single flood, fire, or rapid move resulted in radical loss of records (so many US federal agencies lost records in 1973,) so it seems improbable to me that relying on the manufacturer would be the standard of documentation in the field. I'm surprised there isn't a greater emphasis on provenance, akin to the cultural arts sector.
??? Assumptions?
 
Archer
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J jmgorman
I'm surprised there isn't a greater emphasis on provenance, akin to the cultural arts sector.

These were not necessarily highly prized objects when bought, they were just tools to tell the time with. So keeping detailed records on a wrist watch was like making sure the provenance of your lawnmower was well documented. It just wasn't a thing for most people.

It's only now that these are prized and very valuable, and without owners keeping detailed records (some do, most do not) the brand is left as the only option.
 
gatorcpa
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J jmgorman
I'm surprised there isn't a greater emphasis on provenance, akin to the cultural arts sector.
Watches are mass produced items, unlike art and most noteworthy furniture, which tend to be custom-made. Also, watches were generally sold by third-party retailers, who didn’t always keep accurate records. When they did, those records were lost when jewelers went out of business, merged or otherwise ceased operations.

When specific provenance can be established for a watch, even a mass produced piece, the values can go through the roof.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hylaba...ion-a-record-for-a-wristwatch-at-auction/amp/

https://www.gq.com/story/watches-of-the-week-5-30-20/amp

Etc. etc.
gatorcpa
 
J
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Yes, for your run of the mill watch. I thought the whole point of OP's problem was these were noteworthy, custom pieces the manufacturer couldn't (or won't) precisely detail. But, as I said, still learning, thank you all for your gracious replies.
 
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