Aristocracy of Taste v/s Democracy of Acquisitions (Reflections)

Tony C. · Oct 1, 2020

Archer
I'm an olive oil purist, so I don't want anything "infused" in my oils. I do literally drink it (doctors orders), and I prefer Spanish oils from made from Arberquina olives

I also prefer it "straight". And my new old home is very close to Spain, so I will be exploring some of that country's offerings. Not that there's anything wrong with Portuguese olive oil, mind you.

My mother, who was a superb cook, chose Spanish over Italian olive oils, which I found to be interesting.

chunkythebulldog · Oct 1, 2020

Peemacgee
As it happens, I think Lichtenstein is fantastic
on the other hand, to me, Warhol is okay and I whilst I appreciate the seminal nature of his work I’m not especially excited by it.

Do I think you’re wrong in not liking these two artists?
Do I think you don’t have ‘good taste’ and I do?
Certainly not.

and this is what this discussion was about no matter how many diversions about longevity, or quality, or importance, or general consensus are thrown into the mix.
Taste does not equate to anything other than subjective appreciation.
It cannot be good or bad - unless someone or a group of people tell you it is.

now if you’d have said Jeff Koons balloon animals.......😉

I like that, does he do a Bulldog version?

Aquariusmatic · Oct 1, 2020

I am at the stage of having 47 pieces and wanting to thin down the herd drastically with aimed pieces I've passed on before as out of reach. When like 40ish of these pieces are liquidated I'll be well within reach of closing the "ideal" collection and being smarter down the road...
I've bought every other Omega I've came across and regret doing that now... At the same time I look back and am happy on how many watches passed my wrists and how it helped me make my collection goals a bit clearer...

M'Bob · Oct 1, 2020

Scooterino36
Taste is personal, but “good taste” is generally accepted. It requires the consensus of the group.

And so with art, which flies in the face of the notion that if one person thinks it’s art, then it’s art. If I’m sitting in the subway banging the bottom of a tub, and one deranged person calls me a musician, does that make it so? No: there has to be a group consensus.

My philosophy professor used to say, if you’re wearing a red tie, and a person with protanopia thinks it’s green, is it? But if a large group thinks it’s green, there is less of a chance that an outlier will have the dominant opinion.

But what, then, of the Vogels? Perhaps the lone opinion sees something no one else has appreciated yet, and are ahead of the curve? Who doesn’t love a good contradiction?

Archer · Oct 1, 2020

M'Bob
And so with art, which flies in the face of the notion that if one person thinks it’s art, then it’s art. If I’m sitting in the subway banging the bottom of a tub, and one deranged person calls me a musician, does that make it so? No: there has to be a group consensus.

I don't believe it takes a consensus for someone to be considered a musician, any more than if everyone said someone wasn't a musician (even though they are) that would be true.

M'Bob
My philosophy professor used to say, if you’re wearing a red tie, and a person with protanopia thinks it’s green, is it? But if a large group thinks it’s green, there is less of a chance that an outlier will have the dominant opinion.

Well, since the wavelengths of light can be measured to determine if they fall into the range that we humans call green or red, relying on consensus to resolve such a question is a pretty poor example by your prof. He needs to take a trip down to the sciences department... 😉

M'Bob
But what, then, of the Vogels? Perhaps the lone opinion sees something no one else has appreciated yet, and are ahead of the curve? Who doesn’t love a good contradiction?

They were only ahead of the curve because the market came around to seeing that these works as valuable, important, or whatever the term is you want to use. As I said before, the assumed inevitability of this is something that I really have issues taking at face value, as it would presuppose that any sort of event or trend could not have altered this result. I know Tony doesn't buy my argument, and it's not something that can be proven either way, but making it sound like "destiny" is a stretch for me...

M'Bob · Oct 1, 2020

Archer
I don't believe it takes a consensus for someone to be considered a musician, any more than if everyone said someone wasn't a musician (even though they are) that would be true.

By this standard, if little Johnnie bangs his drum and his mom calls him a musician, does this entitle him or anyone else to label him as such?

We probably won’t end up agreeing on this, because our respective points have pretty much been made, but I just think that the old, “if one person says it’s art, it’s art” perspective, while agreeing that this is mostly a subjective issue, just seems to dumb the whole thing down to an unacceptable level, making it much too simplistic. So back to Jonnie: if his dad and mom claim he’s a musician, no; if his annoying older sister thinks so, maybe; if the kids in the neighborhood want to come over and hear him play, yes.

There is often consensus on physical beauty. When I was a youngster, most every guy I knew thought Raquel Welch was the pinnacle of feminine attractiveness. Now, not everyone thought so, but many did. At the time no one was really quantifying this, but years later, her face and body conformed via research to fit ideal, measurable face and body standards eventually found to have mostly universal appeal, and could be quantified.

While we may not be there yet, I’m certain that one day, too, they will quantify the many variables that make a work of art considered great by consensus.

Scooterino36 · Oct 1, 2020

M'Bob
While we may not be there yet, I’m certain that one day, too, they will quantify the many variables that make a work of art considered great by consensus.

I sure hope not. Wouldn't that strip art of all creativity, if it's purely algorithmic?

Archer · Oct 1, 2020

M'Bob
By this standard, if little Johnnie bangs his drum and his mom calls him a musician, does this entitle him or anyone else to label him as such?

Why would it not? What you and I consider to be music is not the universal definition of music. Music can be many things to many different people and cultures, without fitting a Western norm. But even within Western norms for music, if you had never heard someone playing a Theremin before, you might not consider it music.

Is the composition "4:33" by John Cage music to you? It is completely silent...

Is the Monotone-Silence Symphony music to you? It's one long 20 minute chord, followed by another period of 20 minutes of complete silence.

M'Bob
We probably won’t end up agreeing on this, because our respective points have pretty much been made, but I just think that the old, “if one person says it’s art, it’s art” perspective, while agreeing that this is mostly a subjective issue, just seems to dumb the whole thing down to an unacceptable level, making it much too simplistic.

So it has to be complicated to be true? That's an interesting perspective...

M'Bob
While we may not be there yet, I’m certain that one day, too, they will quantify the many variables that make a work of art considered great by consensus.

When they do, please come back ad update this thread for us, will you? 😀

bubu16 · Oct 2, 2020

Peemacgee
don’t you come in here, at the end of an argument, and try to talk sense....

Didn't realize that argument is ending. Can't express my opinion now? Ps don't tell me what to do and chill out. I wasn't trying to offend anyone.

bubu16 · Oct 2, 2020

Archer
Is that what that was?

No-just an opinion no malicious intent taken badly by a cranky dude!!

janice&fred · Oct 2, 2020

bubu16
Didn't realize that argument is ending. Can't express my opinion now? Ps don't tell me what to do and chill out. I wasn't trying to offend anyone.

Apparently the humor of his response flew right over your head. Perhaps he should have typed it in Tagalog or Bisaya?

bubu16 · Oct 2, 2020

janice&fred
Apparently the humor of his response flew right over your head. Perhaps he should have typed it in Tagalog or Bisaya?

My apology if I missed that. I didn't know that you have a PHD in English Doctor Fred.

bubu16 · Oct 2, 2020

Tony C.
It's worse than that. He apparently failed to see the intrinsic beauty of my arguments. Or did he see it, and choose to ignore it? 🙄

My apology gentlemen. Maybe I failed to see lots of things.

janice&fred · Oct 2, 2020

bubu16
My apology if I missed that. I didn't know that you have a PHD in English Doctor Fred.

Well Mel, if you are going to post as if you have a master's in the obvious then you should expect a bit of good natured teasing.

bubu16 · Oct 2, 2020

janice&fred
Well Mel, if you are going to post as if you have a master's in the obvious then you should expect a bit of good natured teasing.

Sorry my joke didn't come out good either. I am all over the place lately!!

bubu16 · Oct 2, 2020

bubu16
No-just an opinion no malicious intent taken badly by a cranky dude!!

Somebody pointed out the "humor" on this and I misread it. Maybe I am the one who is cranky. Sorry to all!!!

bubu16 · Oct 2, 2020

Peemacgee
don’t you come in here, at the end of an argument, and try to talk sense....

My apology. Fred pointed out the "humor" on this. I was a bit of an onion skinned "cranky" dude not you. Thanks

Peemacgee · Oct 2, 2020

bubu16
My apology. Fred pointed out the "humor" on this. I was a bit of an onion skinned "cranky" dude not you. Thanks

No problems @bubu16
I probably should have added an emoji to my joke.

- and thank you for the PM, very decent of you.

bubu16 · Oct 2, 2020

Thanks. Still learning- - - everyday!!!

Scooterino36 · Oct 2, 2020

I have thoroughly enjoyed this debate on good taste/art and the like, but I must point out that we are 8 pages in and no one has directly addressed OP's question (unless I have missed it). Don't shoot me ladies and gents, just want to hear your opinions on that!

😀

Aristocracy of Taste v/s Democracy of Acquisitions (Reflections)

Tony C.

chunkythebulldog

Aquariusmatic

M'Bob

Archer

M'Bob

Scooterino36

Archer

bubu16

bubu16

janice&fred

bubu16

bubu16

janice&fred

bubu16

bubu16

bubu16

Peemacgee

bubu16

Scooterino36

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