Aristocracy of Taste v/s Democracy of Acquisitions (Reflections)

[krogerfoot]

Archer

I'm not sure why, but you seem to want to take every sentence I write, and make it the most extreme representation of something that it can be. Of course doing this is your choice, and in the end it doesn't matter to me, but if you are trying to understand my opinions as you claim, I don't think this is the way to do it.

I really am not looking for a fight, and I think there is a lot of lovely insight in your example about the Group of Seven, among others. I do want to point out, however, that everything in the post you quoted is in fact drawn nearly word for word from your posts in this thread.

But I don't think you're obligated to be interrogated about every comment you've made here. I do apologize if I'm hectoring you, and I find your views to be thoughtful and well-considered.

 

[krogerfoot]

janice&fred

I'll bet you're a fan of Captain Beefheart 😁

I feel seen.

 

[Archer]

krogerfoot

I really am not looking for a fight, and I think there is a lot of lovely insight in your example about the Group of Seven, among others. I do want to point out, however, that everything in the post you quoted is in fact drawn nearly word for word from your posts in this thread.

But I don't think you're obligated to be interrogated about every comment you've made here. I do apologize if I'm hectoring you, and I find your views to be thoughtful and well-considered.

Thanks. Keep in mind that although I wrote those words (didn't deny it, by the way) that taking them in the extreme as the sum of my position is the issue. There is clearly a lot to unpack in this discussion, so defining my position as completely one thing or another does not reflect the reality of what I'm saying as a whole.

Cheers, Al

 

[Peemacgee]

krogerfoot

Rubens is useful as a way of illustrating how fashions and standards of female beauty have shifted back and forth over the centuries. But His fame does not rest on his having painted the pretty ladies of his day. We keep invoking a painter whose reputation has endured for 400 years and gliding right past this very salient point.

I agree that there are Old Masters who have been appreciated for centuries and remain so today.
Are Ruben's paintings historically important? yes
Are they skilfully painted? Yes
Are they skilfully composed? yes

None of this leads necessarily to an attribution of intrinsic beauty -only enduring appreciation of a master painter of his time.

 

[Tony C.]

Peemacgee

As I noted previously, this is not a nil-sum game.
No-one is undercutting anyone else, that's my point.

We agree on that point, but view it from different perspectives. I would argue that it is possible for there to be intrinsic beauty, yet humans are free to react to it any way that they like. Some people choose not to engage in sex, which is certainly a more profound drive than that to appreciate even the most obvious sort of beauty.

Peemacgee

Now you have set a quality judgment on the viewer (or listener)
"humans who have an appreciation either for nature, or classical music"
does this exclude those who do not have a self-professed appreciation or is this in fact the crux of the matter?

No one need be excluded, and certainly from the nature example. But classical music can be an acquired taste, and its beauty less obvious to at least some of those who have not previously had much (or any) exposure to it.

Peemacgee

However, I don't believe mass-confirmation of anything bestows an intrinsic value, simply a mass-appreciation

No, I wouldn't say that it bestows anything, but would argue that it can reflect intrinsic value.

 

[krogerfoot]

Peemacgee

I agree that there are Old Masters who have been appreciated for centuries and remain so today.
Are Ruben's paintings historically important? yes
Are they skilfully painted? Yes
Are they skilfully composed? yes

None of this leads necessarily to an attribution of intrinsic beauty -only enduring appreciation of a master painter of his time.

This is probably only understandable to North Americans of a certain CRS-susceptible age, but: "Hey, you got your attribution of intrinsic beauty in my enduring appreciation of a master painter!" "No, YOU got YOUR enduring appreciation of a master painter in MY attribution of intrinsic beauty!"

 

[Peemacgee]

Tony C.

No, I wouldn't say that it bestows anything, but would argue that it can reflect intrinsic value.

In the spirit of @krogerfoot 's peanut butter cups, I'll concede that it might reflect a perceived intrinsic value 😉

 

[Archer]

krogerfoot

This is probably only understandable to North Americans of a certain CRS-susceptible age, but: "Hey, you got your attribution of intrinsic beauty in my enduring appreciation of a master painter!" "No, YOU got YOUR enduring appreciation of a master painter in MY attribution of intrinsic beauty!"

Who walks down the street eating a bucket of peanut butter? Who is the creepy dude invading the personal space of these two youngsters? Can art be objectively good? These questions will likely never be answered...

 

[bubu16]

This is like discussing religion/politics -IMO. It won't end in a good way most often than not. Let us just open our eyes and minds and try to understand each one's point and opinion. Everyone makes sense and one isn't better than the other.

 

[krogerfoot]

Archer

Who walks down the street eating a bucket of peanut butter? Who is the creepy dude invading the personal space of these two youngsters? Can art be objectively good? These questions will likely never be answered...

And the biggest mystery of all—Reese's Peanut Butter Cups earned $2.6 billion in 2012, despite being objectively disgusting.

 

[Tony C.]

And to underscore that Al and I aren't far apart on certain aspects of the discussion...

 

[Archer]

krogerfoot

And the biggest mystery of all—Reese's Peanut Butter Cups earned $2.6 billion in 2012, despite being objectively disgusting.

I did like them as a kid, but find them very sweet these days...not sure if they were always so sweet, or if this is just my tastes changing...

 

[bubu16]

krogerfoot

And the biggest mystery of all—Reese's Peanut Butter Cups earned $2.6 billion in 2012, despite being objectively disgusting.

I like them Reese peanut butter cups. You have your reasons for saying that they're disgusting and I have my reasons for liking them. 😀

 

[krogerfoot]

I have noted before that black truffles are a flavorless, odorless substance that can be added to most dishes to make them cost twice as much.

 

[Tony C.]

Archer

I did like them as a kid, but find them very sweet these days...not sure if they were always so sweet, or if this is just my tastes changing...

Probably the latter, and I react the same way. As a mature (pronounced in the upper-class British way – mah-toor) eater, I much prefer chocolate made from Sao Tome beans (75%), in combination with Pic's peanut butter (from NZ). 😁

 

[Peemacgee]

bubu16

This is like discussing religion/politics -IMO. It won't end in a good way most often than not. Let us just open our eyes and minds and try to understand each one's point and opinion. Everyone makes sense and one isn't better than the other.

don’t you come in here, at the end of an argument, and try to talk sense....

 

[krogerfoot]

Tony C.

Probably the latter, and I react the same way. As a mature (pronounced in the upper-class British way – mah-toor) eater, I much prefer chocolate made from Sao Tome beans (75%), in combination with Pic's peanut butter (from NZ). 😁

“But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.”

Edited: Oct 1, 2020

 

[Archer]

Tony C.

And to underscore that Al and I aren't far apart on certain aspects of the discussion...

I'm an olive oil purist, so I don't want anything "infused" in my oils. I do literally drink it (doctors orders), and I prefer Spanish oils from made from Arberquina olives. It produces a very green, sharp oil that I find quite good to take on it's own, and it also goes well in many recipes.

Now olives for eating, my favourites are either Lucques or Verdale...

😀

 

[Tony C.]

Peemacgee

don’t you come in here, at the end of an argument, and try to talk sense....

It's worse than that. He apparently failed to see the intrinsic beauty of my arguments. Or did he see it, and choose to ignore it? 🙄

 

[Archer]

Peemacgee

don’t you come in here, at the end of an argument, and try to talk sense....

Is that what that was?