Are members invested in Bitcoin/crypto?

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Typically using blockchains for 'other use-cases than crypto' as you claimed (like identity, or authenticating things etc etc etc), some cryptographic token is used in the transaction with the blockchain. They are not mutually exclusive.

If you are now defining a "token" as currency...as I said if you redefine what "currency" means, you can make this argument any way you like.

"Blockchain" has been around longer than cryptocurrency...
 
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If you are now defining a "token" as currency...as I said if you redefine what "currency" means, you can make this argument any way you like.

"Blockchain" has been around longer than cryptocurrency...


(from here)
 
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Yes, I know. An NFT of a monkey (or whatever) is not a currency. It has value, but that is not what defines a currency...
 
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I'm not sure everyone in this thread is aware of how widely blockchain is used internally/privately within businesses and also in B2B use cases, in ways that are completely unrelated to cryptocurrency or tokens. Hyperledger is an example of this type of platform. Not even remotely related to the topic of this thread, so I apologize for that.
 
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I'm not sure everyone in this thread is aware of how widely blockchain is used internally/privately within businesses and also in B2B use cases, in ways that are completely unrelated to cryptocurrency or tokens. Hyperledger is an example of this type of platform. Not even remotely related to the topic of this thread, so I apologize for that.

Or cryptography in general (which is quite old by ‘tech’ standards)…

Is this what you are talking about?
 
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Not sure i follow this thread.

I think one of points is that a block chain with token is an asset with value when the blok chain is used to secure a distinct item, such as a watch. The block chain is what is valuable, not the token. People pay in currency for the use of the block chain.

In cryptocurrency, the block chain is only being used to secure the token and there is no purpose outside of that. The value is in how many tokens exist and what people are willing to pay for them.

Was this one of the questions, is the block chain only valuable when it is used for cryptocurrency?
 
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I'm not sure everyone in this thread is aware of how widely blockchain is used internally/privately within businesses and also in B2B use cases, in ways that are completely unrelated to cryptocurrency or tokens. Hyperledger is an example of this type of platform. Not even remotely related to the topic of this thread, so I apologize for that.
I think a discussion of blockchain is pretty closely related to a discussion of bitcoin and not particularly off-topic. I've seen far greater thread drift on this forum.

But regardless, thank you for providing a concrete example; I wasn't aware of it and I'll take a look.
 
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In cryptocurrency, the block chain is only being used to secure the token and there is no purpose outside of that. The value is in how many tokens exist and what people are willing to pay for them.

I think you are displaying a misconception here. Most blockchains associated with cryptocurrencies at least ostensibly exist to provide some useful service, and the purpose of the coin is to provide an incentive for people to maintain the blockchain (i.e. mine/stake transactions). One example off the top of my head is Filecoin, which is supposed to make decentralized storage space available to users. The Filecoin blockchain does not exist just to secure the FIL coin - it's actually the other way around. The Filecoin blockchain records transactions (some amount of IPFS space for some amount of time, proven cryptographically somehow), and to make one of those transactions you need to pay with FIL.

Ethereum is another example. The blockchain tries to be a decentralized programmable computer (e.g. smart contracts, NFTs, DeFi). To use that computer, you need to spend ETH. As @Walrus alluded to above, a high ETH price is actually somewhat counterproductive to the workings of the system, and the ethereum developers are working to try to fix that.

Bringing this back around to the thread topic, your statement does describe bitcoin. All that blockchain does is store a record of who owns the coins themselves, and nothing else. Some people say this makes it a reliable store of value, and some say it's a pointless waste.

You could argue, either cynically or accurately, that the real purpose of any cryptocurrency is to make the tokens more valuable so that the originators get rich. Economists like the ones I quoted above would say that's fine and even necessary (and maybe even that it will lead to a new technology paradigm), while others say it's a ponzi scheme. I'm not actually trying to take much of a stance here, rather just laying out viewpoints that I don't see being discussed (and, to be honest, refine my own thoughts as I do so. So what if this isn't the most obvious forum to do it, I spend enough time here anyway).

Was this one of the questions, is the block chain only valuable when it is used for cryptocurrency?

Not quite. The questions I raise are 1.) whether a decentralized blockchain is practically possible without a cryptocurrency (I think the answer is probably no), and 2.) whether a centralized blockchain (without a cryptocurrency) has much to offer that existing technology (such as massively distributed databases like Google Spanner and cloud computing platforms like AWS) doesn't already do (to the point where people are talking about new computing paradigms). Here again I think the answer is no, but I'd be willing to be convinced otherwise. I could imagine that even if the technology is not actually better, it could be cheaper and easier to implement.

Note that I don't feel this second question is answered in the affirmative by the fact that some or even many people use this type of blockchain today. It would not be the first time a new technology is used because of hype (and the ability to sell it to customers), a point that was made in one of the links that I shared. And if you do believe its use alone proves its worth, then do you also feel that way about, say, ethereum, on top of which the entire decentralized finance system has been built?
Edited:
 
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Holy cow so we are now officially in “bear market” territory. (Regular stocks) I had a bit of a shocking experience today. I was taking someone to the food bank. They announce their special days on Facebook which I don’t have my coworker fills me in but she was off today. There was a sea of humanity I had never seen at the place today. I get nervous seeing that at times as it’s usually after a bad event. However this time it was due to the food bank getting baby formula in. They needed to send police to calm things down.
I know the baby formula issue is not a purely economic problem but damn that was kind of tough to see.
It just seems there are a lot of bad headwinds. Things look bleak in a lot of areas. Diesel fuel is insane. I get this bad feeling at times but then I shake it off as why worry about things beyond your control. Make the moves you think are prudent and see how it plays out. Down here we don’t deal the deck, we just play the percentages.
 
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Not sure i follow this thread.

I think one of points is that a block chain with token is an asset with value when the blok chain is used to secure a distinct item, such as a watch. The block chain is what is valuable, not the token. People pay in currency for the use of the block chain.

In cryptocurrency, the block chain is only being used to secure the token and there is no purpose outside of that. The value is in how many tokens exist and what people are willing to pay for them.

Was this one of the questions, is the block chain only valuable when it is used for cryptocurrency?
If your not sure you follow, you are beginning to understand. Welcome to the club. I am pretty much completely lost on everything and do not follow any of it.
 
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I'm not sure everyone in this thread is aware of how widely blockchain is used internally/privately within businesses and also in B2B use cases, in ways that are completely unrelated to cryptocurrency or tokens. Hyperledger is an example of this type of platform. Not even remotely related to the topic of this thread, so I apologize for that.
Why apologize? I think it’s a cool part of the equation. Besides I mean sometimes I run out of stuff to say about watches but I still need to express myself somewhere as no man is an island. I mean if we pulled this forum apart I’m sure the same watch topic has been discussed with the exception of future releases. Do you know how many times I have said “that is a beautiful watch” to people I don’t know here? Should I stop now? And my friggin cat, pretty soon I’m gonna have to start making shit up cause I think I have fully covered the topic x6
 
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Strange this is the second “high end” company I found this month that decides to accept crypto now in the midst of this significant downturn. Perhaps pre planned and went ahead with idea despite current crypto market or would they be motivated by the downturn in the crypto market. I’m missing something here.
 
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Perhaps pre planned and went ahead with idea despite current crypto market or would they be motivated by the downturn in the crypto market. I’m missing something here.

either.

they are not selling watches at the value of the crypto, but instead accepting crypto at the then-current dollar value of the crypto.

So, if they’ve worked out a relatively efficient (fee-nominal) and instant(ish) way to convert the crypto payment into dollars, it’s not too dissimilar from simply deciding to accept a different fiat currency subject to a trade conversion rate.

in fact, I’d be curious to learn the details of paying for their watch in crypto, as I assume there is a risk/rate adjusted fee built in to the conversion rate.
 
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https://finbold.com/heres-why-bitco...e-the-rest-of-2022-mike-mcglone/?related_post

I don’t like getting my crypto news from crypto sites which may sound weird but too often it sounds like an advertisement however with the “stock” market dumping this is a possibility I just don’t really see it though. For a period of time Bitcoin was acting a little more like a hedge but perhaps it’s still finding its place in the order of things. I’ve been thinking gold was going to pop for a while and it did alright but nothing like those 4K an ounce predictions so you gotta take it all with a grain of salt I could grab 10 “Bitcoin dead again” articles like the last 10 crashes but what’s the point it really could be years in a bear market I’ll be frigged if I know
 
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either.

they are not selling watches at the value of the crypto, but instead accepting crypto at the then-current dollar value of the crypto.

So, if they’ve worked out a relatively efficient (fee-nominal) and instant(ish) way to convert the crypto payment into dollars, it’s not too dissimilar from simply deciding to accept a different fiat currency subject to a trade conversion rate.

in fact, I’d be curious to learn the details of paying for their watch in crypto, as I assume there is a risk/rate adjusted fee built in to the conversion rate.
I’ve bought with crypto in the past sometimes they set up a few gates but don’t assume the goal is an immediate flip although with bitpay it may very well be. I read up on it when it was coming out but of corse I already forgot. In my experience you feel a lot better letting go of Bitcoin when it’s up and for those who are into it, you accumulate during the down periods and hold for dear life. However I have not talked to the CEO at Tag yet so I will cease speculating until I do due diligence
 
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You are right. Until it isn’t.
I am thinking the confidence in the USD is in part ignorance, in part “too big to fail” attitude
I don’t know that BTC can replace the USD, but one thing I am certain of, is that something will.
So it’s when, and what, and will we have time to react when it happens.

The whole ‘dollars are really worthless’ argument fails to recognize simple facts - the US Government demands tax payment in … US dollars … and is backed by the most powerful law enforcement apparatus on earth. I don’t think that’s changing any time soon.
 
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The whole ‘dollars are really worthless’ argument fails to recognize simple facts - the US Government demands tax payment in … US dollars … and is backed by the most powerful law enforcement apparatus on earth. I don’t think that’s changing any time soon.
But we blow through much more than we take in tax wise. Look at the national debt. Bitcoin was never meant (by its creator at least) to overtake the dollar but I don’t think we can use taxes to show the US is in good financial order. Perhaps China will accomplish its goal of being #1 at some point but I don’t know if the world is ready to accept the RMB as the #1 currency yet. I’d be OK with Canada being the world accepted currency instead of USD cause then I could get so say “give me some loonies” all the time which I really enjoy.