Are members invested in Bitcoin/crypto?

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... Most blockchains associated with cryptocurrencies at least ostensibly exist to provide some useful service, and the purpose of the coin is to provide an incentive for people to maintain the blockchain (i.e. mine/stake transactions).

... The questions I raise are 1.) whether a decentralized blockchain is practically possible without a cryptocurrency (I think the answer is probably no), and 2.) whether a centralized blockchain (without a cryptocurrency) has much to offer that existing technology (such as massively distributed databases like Google Spanner and cloud computing platforms like AWS) doesn't already do...

Without considering your question of centralized vs decentralized blockchain, it appears there is agreement that the fundamental value in this technology is the blockchain, and the value of the blockchain is in providing a service. I think there's agreement that the fundamental service of a blockchain is to ensure ownership of an asset.

There is not agreement on whether there is value in a blockchain only being used to secure the cryptocurrency. There is disagreement also on whether cryptocurrency will supercede national currencies. I am in the camp of saying it will not. In some respects, cryptocurrency is like a an attempt to return to a gold standard where every dollar is backed up by physical gold that actually exists, similar to every crypto is mined and is limited. That's not going to work anymore than the gold standard did.

The only value in cryptocurrency thus far is its ability to be transferred easily and anonymously. That's not a service people need when they buy groceries and clothing.

To bring it back to this thread topic, no, I am not interested in Bitcoin. But I am interested in Blockchain.
 
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I think there's agreement that the fundamental service of a blockchain is to ensure ownership of an asset.

I’m by no means any sort of expert, but I do come to this area from the perspective of a partner in a global top 50 law firm doing entirely transactions work in a field dealing with generational contracts.

So forgive if I misspeak or misunderstand, but from my armchair I would say the “value” of the blockchain is not merely to ensure ownership of an asset, but perhaps more powerfully to do so in a way that enables the existence of “smart” contracts that if constructed correctly can perpetually self-execute their terms, and so so without monitoring or intervention.

If constructed correctly, such a paradigm would not be without its unique risks, but still be capable of up-ending the entirety of contractual management and disputes that is wildly rife with inefficiencies and unspeakable downsides.
 
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Regulation is the name of the game with the US government far behind the curve ball and trying to set the rules.

Just look at what the SEC is doing with Ripple to see what the truth is. John Deaton and Jeremy Hogan (love Jeremy) tell it like it is in this case.

At the same time XRP is being held back SWIFT suddenly announces its own blockchain….. all very fishy.

If Ripple lose to the SEC it will have far reaching consequences for ALL crypto and vise versa.
 
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Interesting nuance. Yes, I am wildly simplistic. Still, the smart contract you describe, with all its paradigm shifting impacts, shows the value in the blockchain as securing ownership.

(Get back to work. 😁)
 
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enables the existence of “smart” contracts that if constructed correctly

Big if...
 
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Big if...

sure.

but this is comparative.

and it’s compared to the present existence and content of dumb contracts.

and when it comes to generational contracts, whose performance continues for decades and amongst people never a party to the original agreement, it is hard to stress just how “dumb” such contracts can be.

so will smart contracts be perfect? Of course not. But the bar to improvement is set pretty low.
 
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shows the value in the blockchain as securing ownership.

yes yes, I intended more (though perhaps fumbled) to suggest that “proving ownership” has a far more expansive meaning and implication than some might think at first blush
 
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yes yes, I intended more (though perhaps fumbled) to suggest that “proving ownership” has a far more expansive meaning and implication than some might think at first blush
Interesting I gotta admit much of the smart contract stuff is over my head but I do watch and read Vitaliks (creator of eth) plans for them. He went off a bit on NFT’s recently saying eth was not made to construct pictures of apes but to bring something positive about in society. I’m Not sure if you have followed any of vitaliks plans but as a lawyer is it practical to think these smart contacts could evolve into something that has meaning and utility? I realize Ethereum isn’t the only crypto capable of smart contracts I’m just using it as the main example as it’s familiar to many in the space
 
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but as a lawyer is it practical to think these smart contacts could evolve into something that has meaning and utility?

here’s the story I like to tell about what, in the real world, constitutes “meaning and utility”:

some may know the U.S. is (almost) entirely unique in having private citizens own oil and gas interests (as opposed to almost every other country, where the sovereign owns the interests).

the ownership of those oil and gas interests are reflected entirely and only across real estate deeds and oil and gas “lease” contracts, with chain of title requiring a level of proof from present day back to - literally - the original (non-native in most cases) acquisition of the land from the U.S. government at the founding of the country.

Today, when a multi-billion dollar oil and gas company seeks to acquire any amount of interests in oil and gas, be it for $1,000,000.00 or $10,000,000,000.00, there begins a process of sometimes hundreds of so-called “land men” who thereby spend months traveling to local county courthouses (only a few have digitized to any useful degree) and for hours combing through records in basements to prove up a sufficient - never perfect, merely sufficient - record of title to the underlying assets. This may be a review of a single document for a single lease being acquired, or tens of thousands of documents that merely survey the acquisitions of hundreds of thousands of oil and gas leases.

And to finalize this chaotic and arcane picture of how the world turns, know that many, many, of these documents are terrible, sloppy, vague, no sensible documents of Mr. Jimmy Smith transfers something to Mr. Johnny Smith for $5 dollars type “proof” ownership.

Not to pass over that ALSO inevitably inheritance and estate law issues further cloud the type and universe of existing documents, and I could list another dozen bizarre and confounding issues within and crowding the entire process.

I give this back story and example all to say this: the entire U.S. Oil and Gas industry, and so the lion’s share of regional if not global energy security, all rests upon the back of this absolutely, astronomically, arcane and ridiculous document history of what can at times barely be called documents formed by people who can barely be called literate, and that’s all that “represents ownership” of essentially the foundation of global national security.

So then, when someone understandably wonders aloud whether these “smart contracts” might have any “meaning and utility,” I first want to pull back the curtain of the present system of recording ownership to even important things and say, “we get by on far, far less today.”
 
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here’s the story I like to tell about what, in the real world, constitutes “meaning and utility”:

some may know the U.S. is (almost) entirely unique in having private citizens own oil and gas interests (as opposed to almost every other country, where the sovereign owns the interests).

the ownership of those oil and gas interests are reflected entirely and only across real estate deeds and oil and gas “lease” contracts, with chain of title requiring a level of proof from present day back to - literally - the original (non-native in most cases) acquisition of the land from the U.S. government at the founding of the country.

Today, when a multi-billion dollar oil and gas company seeks to acquire any amount of interests in oil and gas, be it for $1,000,000.00 or $10,000,000,000.00, there begins a process of sometimes hundreds of so-called “land men” who thereby spend months traveling to local county courthouses (only a few have digitized to any useful degree) and for hours combing through records in basements to prove up a sufficient - never perfect, merely sufficient - record of title to the underlying assets. This may be a review of a single document for a single lease being acquired, or tens of thousands of documents that merely survey the acquisitions of hundreds of thousands of oil and gas leases.

And to finalize this chaotic and arcane picture of how the world turns, know that many, many, of these documents are terrible, sloppy, vague, no sensible documents of Mr. Jimmy Smith transfers something to Mr. Johnny Smith for $5 dollars type “proof” ownership.

Not to pass over that ALSO inevitably inheritance and estate law issues further cloud the type and universe of existing documents, and I could list another dozen bizarre and confounding issues within and crowding the entire process.

I give this back story and example all to say this: the entire U.S. Oil and Gas industry, and so the lion’s share of regional if not global energy security, all rests upon the back of this absolutely, astronomically, arcane and ridiculous document history of what can at times barely be called documents formed by people who can barely be called literate, and that’s all that “represents ownership” of essentially the foundation of global national security.

So then, when someone understandably wonders aloud whether these “smart contracts” might have any “meaning and utility,” I first want to pull back the curtain of the present system of recording ownership to even important things and say, “we get by on far, far less today.”
If they though it was a problem to solve the multi-billion dollar oil and gas companies could have paid to digitize all the records with the loose change from the office sofa. Certainly would be cheaper than employing all those “land men”. Doesn't matter how smart or how much meaning and utility something has. Doesn't mean it's going to be used widely.
 
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https://mosttraded.com/2022/06/04/b...inflation-subsides-says-commodity-strategist/

So this one is from a Bloomberg commodities dude. Just posting it as this theme keeps popping up but I take it with a grain of salt because I’ve been hearing the same thing about gold and silver for years. Bitcoin possibly 100k by 2025 sounds a bit optimistic to me. I’m not seeing target prices on gold if that is also going to be what people flock to during this same period. So just posting it as it is a theme I keep hearing doesn’t mean I condone or agree if we or I am still around in 2025 we will know at that point. This is the first time I have lived through this level of inflation or at least been old enough to see it’s impact on people, even with inflation and interest rates the level they are I think my parents were paying 16% on their mortgage I can’t imagine signing off on that and seeing the total amount you would pay on a 20-30 year note.
 
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So this one is from a Bloomberg commodities dude.

Just what financial people say when something is falling and doom and gloom is on the horizon.
 
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Just what financial people say when something is falling and doom and gloom is on the horizon.
I was poking around on Reddit financial subs, some of them are actually pretty informative a lot of people who work in the finance sector write in-depth posts but about a few minutes after I read this I found another one that stated pretty much the opposite. I was going to post it here just to show how much noise is out there much of it conflicting but why bother I’ve already done that in this thread.
I mean there is some logic to the linked article but it’s certainly not gospel. It ain’t no sure thing. I’ve seen Bitcoin have 300% upward moves in a handful of months when it was at 7k so it’s not like it’s impossible but this is unchartered territory for Bitcoin. There is no data available to see how it has performed in times like these as it has yet to go through times like these. It’s still new on the scene. Gold has thousands of years of data behind it and thus far it is not behaving like all these talking heads have been predicting.
Damn though my wife is following some Bloomberg recommendations on stocks prior to earnings releases, I think the last was lululemon which went up like 16% after earnings and another one which I forgot already and that worked out but she didn’t get much and didn’t tell me about it until after the fact so even if she did make enough for a Daytona and a Ferrari (she didn’t)she already moved that around so much I have no clue where it is so at best I could hope for is some rare seiko from Australia with perfect patina and a fishy smell.
 
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In ten years hopefully my Bitcoin will get me one of these because I need a Bitcoin themed watch to go with my lambo
 
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Fascinating to watch what's happening. Here are some tweets, laid out chronologically, from a man who wrote the book De Bitcoinrevolutie, which is apparently the best-selling Dutch book on cryptocurrencies.

Edited:
 
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Fascinating to watch what's happening. Here are some recent tweets, laid out chronologically, from a man who wrote the book De Bitcoinrevolutie, which is apparently the best-selling Dutch book on cryptocurrencies.

Sadly from my experience running a stock trading forum focused on mining stocks, when this happens a bunch of these guys will keep this up right to the end and then be highly at risk mentally. It doesn’t help that because of how vocal they were while it was going up, people will take pleasure in laughing at them and taunting them as it falls. I hope everyone here is doing ok, and if things are looking tough just be aware there are more opportunities ahead of you.