Are members invested in Bitcoin/crypto?

Walrus · May 18, 2022

jumpingsecond
I think Bitcoin, nfts, block chain tech the whole crypto-verse are all still in their infancy stage and their final functions in this world are still evolving. Its like mobile phones when they first came out you could call someone with your chunky black phone from a limo and that looked pretty cool but it was hard to imagine then all the other stuff that hadnt happened yet with cell phones- all you can do on them today. With crypto/ block chain - I doubt currency is its evolved use. It will transform to something most of us(or at least me )cant see yet.

I’m very curious to see where it will go. I get disappointed at times at the money grabs and rug pulls but that’s been going on with currencies, assets, securities, watches and everything else of value long before crypto was even a thought. I’ve been through the 95% crash and held when it was close to worthless. Sometimes it bothers me that I was early enough To the party had I put in serious money it would have been…well we all have those stories but I’ve seen seem pretty cool crypto developed from one that is made to track goods and settle payments from a warehouse to a persons front door that utilizes radio waves, Wi-Fi and a few other communication methods. I picked some up when it was around .000000567 only because I found the concept interesting.
Satoshi had further writings on Bitcoin as “currency” that included both parties being satisfied before funds were settled that were somewhat controversial but it seems he was just brainstorming further development and for whatever reason he walked away. Still one of the richest men in the world he just left it where it is. Quite fascinating IMO. I used to really enjoy reading about it, just haven’t the free time lately but when you read the conversation between the devs (most of which I don’t grasp) crypto has attracted some brilliant minds sometimes these shake outs are good they get rid of the scam coins but what’s going on now is unchartered. We don’t have enough history to see how Bitcoin/crypto navigates a recession (looks like that’s where we are going) but we do know it’s resilient.

Unfortunately it’s no longer seen as a hedge anymore and seems to be correlated to the market which is a bit of a bummer but it’s all good things will happen as they say. Frig I should stop now I’m not even sure I’m being coherent as I don’t really have a point to make.

Archer · May 19, 2022

pdxleaf
Blockchain has been considered useful for tracking other assets, such as luxury watches, with the goal ensuring authenticity

This is a panel discussion I watched last year from Watches and Wonders on the subject. Opportunities and challenges are discussed...

Dan S · May 19, 2022

fibonacci
I'm not aware of any interesting uses of blockchains without an accompanying cryptocurrency, and that's kind of the point; the cryptocurrency provides the necessary incentive for the blockchain to be both decentralized and useful.

We are straying quite far from the topic of the thread, but you are apparently only aware of a small fraction of blockchain use cases. The majority of blockchain applications aren't decentralized and many are not finance-related.

Tony C. · May 19, 2022

Not sure if this has been posted previously, and I freely admit that I am not close to being an expert on the topic, but this Berkeley Prof., who has been studying cryptocurrencies since 2013(!), appears to make a strong case against their utility in this lecture.

Whether viewers find his argument to be compelling or not, the lecture provides valuable and interesting insights to those of us who don't fully understand the background, and nuts and bolts of blockchains, etc.

Archer · May 19, 2022

Tony C.
Not sure if this has been posted previously, and I freely admit that I am not close to being an expert on the topic, but this Berkeley Prof., who has been studying cryptocurrencies since 2013(!), appears to make a strong case against their utility in this lecture.

Whether viewers find his argument to be compelling or not, the lecture provides valuable and interesting insights to those of us who don't fully understand the background, and nuts and bolts of blockchains, etc.

Yes, this is the prof that is interviewed in the article I posted a few pages ago...

Archer
Interesting read...I'm sure many here would disagree...

Why This Computer Scientist Says All Cryptocurrency Should “Die in a Fire” ❧ Current Affairs

fibonacci · May 19, 2022

Dan S
We are straying quite far from the topic of the thread, but you are apparently only aware of a small fraction of blockchain use cases. The majority of blockchain applications aren't decentralized and many are not finance-related.

What are these applications, and what advantage do they provide over databases?

Dan S · May 19, 2022

fibonacci
What are these applications, and what advantage do they provide over databases?

Again, I really don't think that this is the place for a general discussion around blockchain, and to be totally honest, I'm not particularly interested in expounding on a topic that is already covered ad nauseum on the internet. The comparison with databases is not particularly apt IMO.

I would suggest using google to find some articles on blockchain applications and use cases. IBM's website also has some good use case examples.

Walrus · May 19, 2022

fibonacci
No, NFTs rely on cryptocurrencies, not just blockchain. Most NFTs use the ERC-721 standard on the Ethereum blockchain, which means they depend on the cryptocurrency ETH. I'm not aware of any interesting uses of blockchains without an accompanying cryptocurrency, and that's kind of the point; the cryptocurrency provides the necessary incentive for the blockchain to be both decentralized and useful.

Yes and it’s clogging up the eth network like the crypto kitties craze and driving up fees I really wish that would chill, actually it does appear to be now for a minute I forgot we in a world of hurt.

Walrus · May 19, 2022

Dan S
Again, I really don't think that this is the place for a general discussion around blockchain, and to be totally honest, I'm not particularly interested in expounding on a topic that is already covered ad nauseum on the internet. The comparison with databases is not particularly apt IMO.

I would suggest using google to find some articles on blockchain applications and use cases. IBM's website also has some good use case examples.

That’s one of the interesting aspects of it. Blockchain was given to the world open source when satoshi released Bitcoin. The guy must have been brilliant. We see now blockchain has numerous uses that have benefitted us. Satoshi be it a person or group could have approached apple, google, IBM etc and probably made them drool and whip out a very large check. That part always kind of amazes me. I know Elon releases some of his Tesla developments open source. It just seems counter intuitive to how many, probably most, of humanity operates. He knew he had something of value yet the first Bitcoin transaction was not even a penny for one. The open source thing always leaves me amazed but maybe it’s not that big a deal and I’m not looking at it right. I can think of numerous times I have been wrong. Like even today a few times.

Tony C. · May 20, 2022

Walrus
Blockchain was given to the world open source when satoshi released Bitcoin.

This is, to my understanding, a false narrative, created to hype Bitcoin (and other crypto coins). Private blockchains were created 20+ years ago.

Apparently Stuart Haber and W. Scott Stornetta were the originators of the idea, and as far back as the early '90s.

satoshi certainly popularized it, though.

Walrus · May 20, 2022

Tony C.
This is, to my understanding, a false narrative, created to hype Bitcoin (and other crypto coins). Private blockchains were created 20+ years ago.

Apparently Stuart Haber and W. Scott Stornetta were the originators of the idea, and as far back as the early '90s.

satoshi certainly popularized it, though.

Yes it was proposed just never used or put together in any meaningful way
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blockchain.asp

eugeneandresson · May 20, 2022

pdxleaf
Blockchain has been considered useful for tracking other assets, such as luxury watches, with the goal ensuring authenticity

Yes…but typically a ‘cost’ is incurred in doing that…the entity that actually mines that block with the embedded-asset-data gets paid to do so (no such thing as a free lunch!).

But I don’t want to caught in the cross-fire…just thought it worth pointing out 👍

Archer · May 20, 2022

eugeneandresson
Yes…but typically a ‘cost’ is incurred in doing that…the entity that actually mines that block with the embedded-asset-data gets paid to do so (no such thing as a free lunch!).

But I don’t want to caught in the cross-fire…just thought it worth pointing out 👍

I don't think anyone suggested that using the process is cost free. Someone is always paying, but that doesn't mean a cryptocurrency is involved. There's a reason why people talk about the worth of cryptos in real dollars...it always goes back to real dollars. So to extrapolate the argument further, it's all based on dollars...

Spacefruit · May 20, 2022

Archer
I don't think anyone suggested that using the process is cost free. Someone is always paying, but that doesn't mean a cryptocurrency is involved. There's a reason why people talk about the worth of cryptos in real dollars...it always goes back to real dollars. So to extrapolate the argument further, it's all based on dollars...

You are right. Until it isn’t.
I am thinking the confidence in the USD is in part ignorance, in part “too big to fail” attitude
I don’t know that BTC can replace the USD, but one thing I am certain of, is that something will.
So it’s when, and what, and will we have time to react when it happens.

Archer · May 20, 2022

Spacefruit
You are right. Until it isn’t.
I am thinking the confidence in the USD is in part ignorance, in part “too big to fail” attitude
I don’t know that BTC can replace the USD, but one thing I am certain of, is that something will.
So it’s when, and what, and will we have time to react when it happens.

Well, your response is not related at all to what I was saying...it's a different topic completely.

Spacefruit · May 20, 2022

I was referring to the underlying assertion “it’s all based on dollars”

Currently it is, but at some point it may not be, and if that change happens, it may happen very quickly.

Archer · May 20, 2022

Spacefruit
I was referring to the underlying assertion “it’s all based on dollars”

Currently it is, but at some point it may not be, and if that change happens, it may happen very quickly.

Again, not really what I was saying, but if you haven't followed the last few pages, I can see where you have missed it. It was a form of reductio ad absurdum...if you read back you will get the point.

eugeneandresson · May 20, 2022

Archer
I don't think anyone suggested that using the process is cost free. Someone is always paying, but that doesn't mean a cryptocurrency is involved.

But to pay for such a service dollars will not be used, ergo ...

Archer · May 20, 2022

eugeneandresson
But to pay for such a service dollars will not be used, ergo ...

So every blockchain application present and future will have a cost, and the only method used to cover that cost will be crypto? Seems like a bold claim.

Also, people will buy the crypto with...real dollars (or whatever the local currency is).

eugeneandresson · May 20, 2022

Archer
So every blockchain application present and future will have a cost, and the only method used to cover that cost will be crypto?

Typically using blockchains for 'other use-cases than crypto' as you claimed (like identity, or authenticating things etc etc etc), some cryptographic token is used in the transaction with the blockchain. They are not mutually exclusive.

As @fibonacci said ...

fibonacci
No, NFTs rely on cryptocurrencies, not just blockchain. Most NFTs use the ERC-721 standard on the Ethereum blockchain, which means they depend on the cryptocurrency ETH. I'm not aware of any interesting uses of blockchains without an accompanying cryptocurrency, and that's kind of the point; the cryptocurrency provides the necessary incentive for the blockchain to be both decentralized and useful.

...and you disagree'd with

Archer
I disagree, as blockchain has been suggested as something that can be used for many things not cryptocurrency related (as have NFT's) but I'm not going to argue it any longer as you are very convinced.

Thats the only point I am making that a lot of people in this chat (yourself included) don't seem to 'get'. How that token was purchased (or swapped) is irrelevant (and yes, it doesn't necessarily have to be the USD). Peace out and enjoy the weekend folks.