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Anyone here who's started a watch brand?

Foo2rama
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Risto Risto
It all depends on how many watches to sell and what's the price.

I would have a hard time selling 3-5k EUR watches to the local market.
A local watchmaker has sold his 100 pc runs to the local market. He has 30-40 customers who are millionaires and always buy his watches. He lately released one new model, the price was around 2k, limited to 25pc, and sold them in 5 days.
He doesn't do any marketing.
Just website, Instagram, and Facebook where he updates with new info.

I also think the case should be unique.
For me, the dial and the case are the most important components of a watch.

I think I will start with a prototype. Hopefully, that local guy will help me out. He did tell me that I shouldn't create my own watches 😀
He also has some machines and knows 3D etc...


Risto Risto
One another thing I was also thinking, was to get a used vintage watch that has a deteriorated dial and create a new one. Just for a start.


getting a batch of dials made to spec is easy. Getting one is hard.

A prototype will cost a large factor more then a single watch.

what style of watch are you looking to do?

like I said earlier I already went down this path.
 
mzinski
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@Risto Yes, I'm in the beginning-middle of the process now. Feel free to take a look at what I'm working on: www.typsim.com

I will agree with the sentiments expressed to date regarding marketing, it's essential to getting your project/brand off the ground. You need to determine what sets your brand apart from the rest of the pack (not just one other brand you think you could compete with) and ask yourself, "Why will consumers purchase my watch over the other options available?" This is, of course, unless you're independently wealthy and having people buy your watch doesn't matter. In which case, it doesn't matter.

The design process is fun but can be a bit aggravating, especially if you're intent on doing something different. Generally speaking the major watch factories available to microbrands are set up for one type of watch. I don't mean private label watches in which you brand a catalog watch but rather ODM (original design manufacturing). While that sounds like the sky is the limits, it's not. Should you want to deviate from that normal, you will face an uphill battle. Prepare yourself to negotiate engineering limits and material supply chains with maintaining your design intent.

Again, generally speaking, you can go to China or Switzerland for design, prototyping, and manufacturing.

China:
~USD 1000 for design concept work
~USD 5000 for prototype manufacturing
The breakdown is USD 4000 + tooling costs + (unit cost x quantity)
Tooling and unit costs are highly dependent on your watch design

Switzerland:
~CHF 10,000 for design
~CHF 10,000 for engineering
~CHF 5,000 for a functional prototype
One note about the prototyping in Switzerland, they only work in brass although it can be plated to be silver. Functional does NOT mean water resistant. And if you want a stainless steel prototype, guess what they do? They outsource to China!
Another note on the costs, depending on your completeness of design work and technical drawings, you can cut down and/or eliminate the design fee.

Should you want to go it your own and manufacture your own watch (excluding the movement) you're looking at some sizable startup costs. Here are a couple of the heavy hitters:
5-axis CNC machine: ~USD 134,000 not including tools, those are about USD 500 each. This also doesn't account for the USD 100/hr engineer you'll need to program, run, and maintain the machine
3-color Pad printer: ~USD 20,000 (not including cliches or ink)

Again, I will similarly note having a watchmaker on retainer or payroll is essential. You will need to stand behind your watches and you will need someone to do that work for you (if you cannot do it yourself). It's worth noting you'll need to prepare for after sales care with instructions, FAQs, repairs, warranty, spare parts, shipping costs, etc.

Anyways, good luck! When you make some of those sketches do share with the group. It'd be great to see them and hear how you're coming along.
 
Foo2rama
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mzinski mzinski
@Risto Yes, I'm in the beginning-middle of the process now. Feel free to take a look at what I'm working on: www.typsim.com

I will agree with the sentiments expressed to date regarding marketing, it's essential to getting your project/brand off the ground. You need to determine what sets your brand apart from the rest of the pack (not just one other brand you think you could compete with) and ask yourself, "Why will consumers purchase my watch over the other options available?" This is, of course, unless you're independently wealthy and having people buy your watch doesn't matter. In which case, it doesn't matter.

The design process is fun but can be a bit aggravating, especially if you're intent on doing something different. Generally speaking the major watch factories available to microbrands are set up for one type of watch. I don't mean private label watches in which you brand a catalog watch but rather ODM (original design manufacturing). While that sounds like the sky is the limits, it's not. Should you want to deviate from that normal, you will face an uphill battle. Prepare yourself to negotiate engineering limits and material supply chains with maintaining your design intent.

Again, generally speaking, you can go to China or Switzerland for design, prototyping, and manufacturing.

China:
~USD 1000 for design concept work
~USD 5000 for prototype manufacturing
The breakdown is USD 4000 + tooling costs + (unit cost x quantity)
Tooling and unit costs are highly dependent on your watch design

Switzerland:
~CHF 10,000 for design
~CHF 10,000 for engineering
~CHF 5,000 for a functional prototype
One note about the prototyping in Switzerland, they only work in brass although it can be plated to be silver. Functional does NOT mean water resistant. And if you want a stainless steel prototype, guess what they do? They outsource to China!
Another note on the costs, depending on your completeness of design work and technical drawings, you can cut down and/or eliminate the design fee.

Should you want to go it your own and manufacture your own watch (excluding the movement) you're looking at some sizable startup costs. Here are a couple of the heavy hitters:
5-axis CNC machine: ~USD 134,000 not including tools, those are about USD 500 each. This also doesn't account for the USD 100/hr engineer you'll need to program, run, and maintain the machine
3-color Pad printer: ~USD 20,000 (not including cliches or ink)

Again, I will similarly note having a watchmaker on retainer or payroll is essential. You will need to stand behind your watches and you will need someone to do that work for you (if you cannot do it yourself). It's worth noting you'll need to prepare for after sales care with instructions, FAQs, repairs, warranty, spare parts, shipping costs, etc.

Anyways, good luck! When you make some of those sketches do share with the group. It'd be great to see them and hear how you're coming along.

interesting choice of the coin edge!

also you might want to check if there is an international law in regards to putting chronograph on a watch. There is for Diver and other terms on watches.
 
mzinski
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
interesting choice of the coin edge!

also you might want to check if there is an international law in regards to putting chronograph on a watch. There is for Diver and other terms on watches.
Thanks!

The chronometer question is a good one. As I understand it, COSC governs the use of the term in Switzerland. However, outside of Switzerland I do not believe the term is strictly controlled. Additionally, I am working with Besancon Observatory in France to have the watches certified as chronometers under ISO3159. Their certification allows for the marking of the watches.
 
Zapatta
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If you ask me, I would make limited watches (max 10) with custom made case and dial. Powered with reliable swiss movement but heavily decorated. Few years ago, took apart old russian Molnija movement and made beveled edges (anglage) using cheap needle files. It took a while but it looked good. Too bad I didn't finished it and left it somewhere in the box. Maybe I should try to do this again but this time with Unitas 6498. Just to cure this covid depression 😁

Here is a photo Molnija bridge with "fat" beveling.
 
95a12af18fc6d0fa461ec0c2ffda6031 (1).jpg
neilfrancis
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STANDY STANDY
I’m after a bezel free field watch that’s at least 300meters waterproof.

Make one, I will buy it.
( must be a 2824-2 )

And there is a niche for you.
I think the Unimatic modelo U2 may fit your bill.
 
Nobel Prize
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
Hmm, it didn't work out that way when I looked at it, there was profit in it on 50 run batches. Thinking along the lines of Baltic, MK II, Magrette level of quality.
That's what I call the "lemonade stand" effect. Your kids can make a profit selling lemonade on Sundays on a stand by your house...they will not if they open a lemonade store.

Small batch production is successful because you can even build to order....larger batches require commitment, manpower, consistency of product etc. you can find one dial for nothing, 50 for a little bit more, and then another 50, and the another....but then you most likely will find that after a few batches there will be inconstancies in the product. The font, logo, color Pantone, lume...something will be off slightly. This is unavoidable for any manufacturer, be it Rolex, or Swatch. The larger the batch of supplies you get there more you can guarantee a consistent production line. Arguably consistency is what builds a brand DNA, unless you market an ALL ORIGINAL unique piece for everyone with no guarantees of product ("what you buy may not be what you get" sort of thing.")

Ironically this approach if marketed well can be perceived as luxury "every watch is a one of" but you have to market it well.

When inconsistencies happen to Rolex or Omega we end up with unique and more valued one offs, or small series....unless you market it that way, when it happens to you it may seem unreliable production and quality. “I got two watches, one for me and one for my son....hey, they're supposed to be the same!!!”

In short, can you make a few watches at a profit on your own time and dime? yes. Can you make a commercial line of watches that will be available to the buyer and can be sold to mass market? more difficult without marketing....of course you can blend these two and sell on limited production to mass market but who wants to be on a waiting list for a new, unproven brand?....unless there is a massive campaign to justify the prestige....and that, again, requires money.
Edited:
 
Nobel Prize
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mzinski mzinski
@Risto Yes, I'm in the beginning-middle of the process now. Feel free to take a look at what I'm working on: www.typsim.com

I will agree with the sentiments expressed to date regarding marketing, it's essential to getting your project/brand off the ground. You need to determine what sets your brand apart from the rest of the pack (not just one other brand you think you could compete with) and ask yourself, "Why will consumers purchase my watch over the other options available?" This is, of course, unless you're independently wealthy and having people buy your watch doesn't matter. In which case, it doesn't matter.

The design process is fun but can be a bit aggravating, especially if you're intent on doing something different. Generally speaking the major watch factories available to microbrands are set up for one type of watch. I don't mean private label watches in which you brand a catalog watch but rather ODM (original design manufacturing). While that sounds like the sky is the limits, it's not. Should you want to deviate from that normal, you will face an uphill battle. Prepare yourself to negotiate engineering limits and material supply chains with maintaining your design intent.

Again, generally speaking, you can go to China or Switzerland for design, prototyping, and manufacturing.

China:
~USD 1000 for design concept work
~USD 5000 for prototype manufacturing
The breakdown is USD 4000 + tooling costs + (unit cost x quantity)
Tooling and unit costs are highly dependent on your watch design

Switzerland:
~CHF 10,000 for design
~CHF 10,000 for engineering
~CHF 5,000 for a functional prototype
One note about the prototyping in Switzerland, they only work in brass although it can be plated to be silver. Functional does NOT mean water resistant. And if you want a stainless steel prototype, guess what they do? They outsource to China!
Another note on the costs, depending on your completeness of design work and technical drawings, you can cut down and/or eliminate the design fee.

Should you want to go it your own and manufacture your own watch (excluding the movement) you're looking at some sizable startup costs. Here are a couple of the heavy hitters:
5-axis CNC machine: ~USD 134,000 not including tools, those are about USD 500 each. This also doesn't account for the USD 100/hr engineer you'll need to program, run, and maintain the machine
3-color Pad printer: ~USD 20,000 (not including cliches or ink)

Again, I will similarly note having a watchmaker on retainer or payroll is essential. You will need to stand behind your watches and you will need someone to do that work for you (if you cannot do it yourself). It's worth noting you'll need to prepare for after sales care with instructions, FAQs, repairs, warranty, spare parts, shipping costs, etc.

Anyways, good luck! When you make some of those sketches do share with the group. It'd be great to see them and hear how you're coming along.
Cool! well one!
 
Nobel Prize
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When you're ready to sell I may support you as well. I leave in Detroit so mine has to be bullet proof!

(bad joke and not really applicable. Detroit is doing great and is very safe)
 
vitriol
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@Risto, - I did not read the full thread, sorry if it was already mentioned - probably the easiest way to launch you own watch brand is https://www.walca.ch/about-us
This is an owner/parent company of Doxa but the main streamline of their business is launching new watch brands. Afaik they can do it A-Z "from production to distribution", but also can be more flexible and can provide only the resources which you don't have.
GL anyway.
Edited:
 
Risto
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My wife is going to give birth to our second child this weekend, so can't deal with other topics right now 😀

Thank you, everybody, for giving good advice!
I will return here next week if possible 😀
 
Nobel Prize
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Been thinking about a way to condense my thoughts.

making the watches is not difficult, specially if you outsource the production. But...

the business is not on the watches, it’s on creating a brand.

creating a successful brand is not easy, or cheap.
 
omegamike
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Risto Risto
I have been thinking about creating my own watch brand.

Sounds crazy and difficult and the market is full of microbrands and established ones.
Can I create something different? Would anyone buy my watches?
How much will it cost... etc etc.
I do have a million questions.

There are some helpful resources on how to start:
https://rossdavis.com/designing-a-watch-building-prototype/

Is there anyone here who has made it?

I'm working on it now!

It's "W10" on Kickstarter, know, I know...but it is a legitimate way to prove efficacy of my idea. I basically set out to buy an Automatic PVD fieldwatch that was 150+ water resistant and under <40mm. And that looks good! Harder than you might think. I was really close to getting the manual wind Hamilton Khaki, but it just didn't cut it with water resistance and obviously not being Automatic. So I designed a watch for myself. Basically, I found a factory that makes some great watches in China, and had endless discussions with them on how capable they were of customizing and sourcing. I did not want to use there existing product or movements. This allowed me to do multiple rounds of prototyping at reasonable rates: $1000-2000 for case protos, $500+ for dial hands protos etc. Then I was able to get multiple of the final design and test them. After satisfactory tests, I was able to pay a videographer and write and direct a script for the video. The rest is relatively "free" sweat equity, as I am already an Industrial Designer with Graphic Design capabilities. I can get into margin details after the Kickstarter ends, but basically the margin comes into play at scale. So if I order 300 watches I can get the watched for almost 50% of what 50 watches might cost (per watch). In the end it's not a huge money maker for me, but I'm also not designing for the masses.

We are over 75% funded! And we have a few Early Bird watches left!
Check us out - cheers Search W10 on Kickstarter! Or click below.
https://bit.ly/W10WatchCompany
 
Archer
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It's more difficult than people realize, so a few rather naïve comments made in this thread.

There are several different paths one can go down to accomplish this, so deciding what path you want to pursue is the first step. It can be as complicated as "design and make it all yourself" where being an IT guy isn't going to help you much, to being as easy as "pick a case, dial, and hands from our Chinese catalogue" and they will put your name on it, and even drop ship it so you don't have to do much of anything.

Lot's of people here are focused on marketing, and certainly you have to market the watches (by the way, having your own web site, and posting updates on FB and other social media is in fact marketing), but if you don't have at least some understanding of how a watch goes together, or have someone working with you who does, the project will fail. It won't take too many people saying that their watch failed in some way, to make all the marketing you do moot.

Many large suppliers won't even talk to small start-up brands, so the first challenge is finding someone who will work with you, when you have no idea what you are actually doing. These places aren't in the business of educating people on basic watchmaking principles, so having some understanding of that should be, IMO the place to start. Even if you are taking a hands off approach to the actual manufacturing, you will be able to determine if someone is pulling the wool over your eyes.

If there's one piece of advice I can give people, is not to skimp on the quality of the parts you are buying. I just finished assembling 3 custom watches that someone had the parts made for, and the dial were absolutely terrible quality. The previous watchmaker didn't bother to address the issues, so I was left to clean up their mess.

"And last, but not least, a man wants to make a living. Why not profit from what I actually love."

One last piece of advice...you may not love this as much as you do now, once it becomes you way of earning a living. Understand that going in, because when it's no longer a distraction from everyday life, and becomes what you must do to put food on the table, there are plenty of days where it's not fun. Doesn't matter how much you loved it going in...

Cheers, Al
 
Risto
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Great comments, guys!

I am in no doubt that starting a new business is hard.
And the marketing is important if you plan to sell the watches more than a few dozens.
It could be true that if the hobby becomes a job it's not that fun anymore.

I still hope to make my drawings this week, maybe I'll succeed 😀
You have to start somewhere!
I am starting with the design.

Btw, my newborn is alright. She did come out 2 weeks earlier, induced, because of the heart issues - too high pulse.
But, we'll continue monitoring her.

Screenshot 2020-12-23 at 23.13.48.png
 
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