Anyone have a historical watch?

Whenever possible, I like to find medals that are appropriate with the history of the watch. This medal was awared to Československé Pilots exiled. It is challenging to find a medal now that has the "Battle of France" and "Battle of Britain" campaign participation bars.



The condition is poor but this medal found it's way from Russia to Almaty, Kazakhstan. This is not from the original pilot family.


It is missing the SSSR (Union of Soviet Socialists Republics) bar that would have been on the bottom. You can see the holes where that bar was originally attached. This medal traces the presumed history of the 5.3M-5.4M Serial Number first generation watches. Note: This is the only version that was issued during the war. Not after WW2 like the Prague versions that came in 1945. Should have it in a few weeks.


Pamětní medaile československé armády v zahraničí [Memorial Medal of Czechoslovak Foreign Army abroad]

Award Criteria:

The medal was awarded to personnel of the Czechoslovak Army abroad during WW2. It could also be awarded to personnel of the Allied armies, which took part in the liberation struggles on the soil of the Czechoslovak Republic and further on to those, who were serving either in the Czechoslovak Army abroad or in the Czechoslovak Air Force units abroad, and who had served for the period of at least two months.

This is the London version which is the first version.


Source
https://fcafa.com/2016/06/29/czechoslovak-medals-awarded-to-czechoslovak-airmen-in-ww2/
There are three versions of this medal; London 1943-1945, Prague 1945 and Prague 1945 -1947.


Original issue document.


Double click to read the English translation.


Bench dedicated to RAF Czechoslovak Pilot.

I have an opinion of the second series c1943 Longines ref 3583. They could be Slovakian Airforce watches of the German occupation. They fought for Nazi Germany at that time. This makes more sense than supplying to a nonexistent Czechoslovakia Army in occupied territory at Bratislava.


The proper wings for Bratislava Slovakia

Well sort of, I don't think it was up to the pilots. Most likely like all military issued watches, the qualifications process for meeting the specs of a watch required extensive testing. The Longines 3582 was already qualified by the previous military procurement process. Most likely the change of the hands was the results of additional German/Slovak updated requirements, but the basic watch was the same with a change in the movement.

1) Anti-magnetic
2) Accuracy under vast temperature ranges
3) Number of hours of power reserve
4) Parts and Serviceability
5) Size, dial design, case design
6) Case material, band material, watch band type
7) Military Markings or not
8) etc

Also note:
Czechoslovakia before the invasion of the German army had accepted the 15.26 so the movements 15.94 and 15.26 were already qualified.

This history was written by the current importer and distributor of Longines watches in Czech Republic.



https://www.hodinarstvibechyne.cz/cs/magazin/historie-longines-v-ceske-republice/






Saturn is one of the government cooperatives. So basically the military watch repair facility in 1958

I found an interesting film clip from 1942-1943 in the Czech Republic National Archives.

As already mentioned the 4 most well known RAF Squadrons with Czechoslovakian Pilots was 310 (Fighter), 311 (Bomber), 312 (Fighter), and 313(Fighter). Below is a film about Squadron 310. What is interesting about this film is that you can observer the Majetek Zenith, RAF 6B/159, and Majetek Longines watches used although not perfectly. We have to assume by the size that the watch is not one of the smaller MVS watches.


It is easy to identify most Czechoslovakian pilots with this set of wings.


Here is his watch that is bigger to me than the Eterna or Lemania


You can sort of see one here as the pilot prepares for take off and says good-bye to the mascot.


The RAF Squadron 310 is identified with the letters "NN"


Here is an example of the earlier issued Majetek Zenith watches which are round. They resemble German Pattern 1928 watches.


Probably not convinced yet. See below. Note the bugout supply kit is dated 1941.


There are about three pilots with the square type MVS watches. Two with Zenith MVS watches, and at least two with 6B/159 white dialed watches in the squadron.

The Majetek Vojenské Správy (MVS) watches used by RAF Czechoslovakia Squadron 310 Duxford.
I wanted to also show the Zenith Special that not much is discussed about them.

Squadron 310 Note the NN on the Hurricane.



In order of issue:

MVS Zenith Special




MVS Longines caliber 15.94 (before 1939 all watches after 1938 will not be RAF Czechoslovakian) Note the bezel is important
for identifying the blurry image I posted above, this is the only square MVS watch that has a rotating bezel so the images are
without a doubt the Longines.


Other possibilities include the Lemania note the bezel is not a rotating pointer like in the film with the bugout box


Again here a possibility of the Eterna but note again there is no rotatable pointer bezel.





And any of the RAF 6B/159

I could not be any happier at the moment. Today the Czechoslovakia Army Abroad Medal from WW2 finally arrived from former Soviet Union Almaty Kazakstan (where the famed AK47 engineer Mikhail Kalashnikov lived)

What is particularly important of this medal is that it can only be from a Czechoslovakian Pilot with the "Battle of France" and "Battle of Britain" bars originally attached to the medal. The Battle of Britain was only an air war, there are no ground or sea soldiers that can get this medal awarded to them. After the medal arrived, I found it has sunburns from only two bars. So other good news, this medal is not missing any bars either, it just has more damage than an average medal.

There can only be 88 genuine Battle of Britain barred medals recorded in history.

The other medals are from a Czechoslovakian soldier that fought over Belgium. The Squadron 310 is known to have flown several hundred missions over Belgium. However, there is more likely in my opinion that the Belgium medals came from an armored division. I needed the Czechoslovakia War Cross 1939-1945 and all the other Belgium medals came along as one estate. Every RAF Czechoslovakian fighter pilot I have seen with their campaign ribbons visible has been awared the War Cross, Army Abroad, and Medal of Bravery (that arrives Monday) And these medals were well deserved, the pilots went into exile, but they joined the Polish, then joined the French, and finally joined the British pilots. Most people I would have assumed would not volunteer that many times, but nearly all the Czechoslovakian pilots regulary did. The Czechoslovak pilots also had among the highest number of British Distinguished Flying Cross recepients, which is also an amazing accomplishment. Currently can't find one of those that is anywhere less than the cost of the Longines.

The Czechoslovakian Pilot wings are WW2 issued wings made in London for the Czechoslovakian pilots. Originally, the pilots were issued silver wings, however, at some point in the war, pilots stated to only wear the bronze version made abroad instead of the silver ones which were made in both London and Prague.

(The RAF 310 Squadron blazer coat patch bullion is a modern reproduction a.k.a. fake)





Czechoslovak RAF pilots receiving Distinguished Flying Cross (Three on the left)


Emil got one too

Possibly less than 88 Czechoslovia issued watches made it to the Battle of Britain ( 88 pilots with various watches including Longines, Zenith, Eterna, Lemania, and various 6B/159 ).

Finally proof that the Longines MVS 3582 caliber 15.94 was issued originally with mineral low dome glass and not the high bubble dome plexi of later versions of the watch. Fajtl is a famous RAF Czechoslovak pilot.

I purchased an original RAF No. 11 Group Fighter Command report that mentions the Czech Fighter Squadrons 310 and 312.
No. 11 Group is responsible for defending London. It's amazing that this document was in someones private collection not so
much because of it's importance, but because it was marked secret and most likely required access to the archive to "liberate" it. Generative AI says Squadron 310 was part of No. 12 Group, but this maybe a typo.







Clearly RAF No. 11 Group included


Hopefully in a few weeks when the document arrives, I can take a nice photograph of it.




Mission took place over France, what is particularly interesting about this mission is that this is only 6 or 7 weeks before D-Day. Eisenhower already was planning the invasion of Normandy Beach many months before June 6th. The missions over France was to reduce the ability for the Germany Airforce to provide air support to the beaches. Evreux is only 5 minutes away from Normandy.



It appears they came from possibly his estate?

RAF Squadron 310 and 312 would be back on D-Day at Normandy just a few kilometers away from Eveux.

Was fortunate to get a nice Seikosha Tensoku project watch last week. Hopefully fairly straightforward to return it back to original, although I’m expecting that I’ll end up with a crown that’s a close match rather than a correct one.

Congrats, that's going to be a nice watch. Any chance of preserving the crystal and just clearing it up a bit? Looks like from the image that it is in good shape to start from. You have the short red index type of dial. What does the back say? I always found these watches to be odd, the dial is luminuous, but the hands never seem to be luminous.

It’s really crisply marked on the back with the standard characters. Issue number is 1556. I’ll try and save the crystal but I’m aware that yellowed crystals can off-gas and degrade the hands/dial/movement over time. I wonder if anyone out there makes a decent reproduction crystal. I’ve seen some with any old crystal thrown on and they often look horrible.

Very nice !

Picking up the Tensoku just makes me wish even more that I hadn’t tripped up on the Buyee one (damn the 300000 yen bidding limit).

https://omegaforums.net/threads/a-forgotten-invention-by-p-v-h-weems.167541/#post-2282303

This is the list of all the Czechoslovakia Pilots that fought in the Battle of Britain.