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Anyone have a historical watch?

  1. keepsonticking Jul 28, 2022

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    I once met Jonathon Winters in an antique mall.


    I think he had a watch.
     
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  2. Seiji Jul 31, 2022

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    Just one more left to arrive.
    Will need an 11 medal box :)
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    Edited Aug 15, 2022
  3. JohnLy Jul 31, 2022

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    Very impressive...
     
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  4. Seiji Aug 5, 2022

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    Reading up on a recent acquisition. I actual don't know what is the brand of the watch.
    Some of you who are interested in British military history might find this watch interesting.
    At this moment I don't know much about the watch. It may have ties to the famous Scottish
    Regiment known as the "Black Watch" or the "Cameronians" during the Great War. There is at
    least one possibility that it was presented by Lt. Col. Fredrick Faber MacCabe (Surgeon Major)
    of the South Irish Horse battalion that may have been attached to a Scottish Division.

    Both Regiments earned fame for their fierce fighting and valor. The Black Watch is especially known for the amount of decorations the regiment has received. These are both very elite regiments.

    418px-The_Cameronians_(scottish_Rifles)_Art.IWMPST1644.jpg 2022-08-05_08-54-11.jpg

    The Black Watch was known for going into battle in kilts. Enemies didn't live long make light of the Black Watch tartan.
    _methode_sundaytimes_prod_web_bin_286009a0-f910-11e5-be35-680409daee89.jpg

    ww1.jpg

    2022-08-04_18-00-45.jpg

    There were at least two Black Watch Battalions camped at Nigg Scottland near Tain.
    Black Watch Battalion 3rd.jpg Black Watch Battalion 11th.jpg
    2022-08-04_21-35-07.jpg upload_2022-8-5_11-32-56.png

    2022-08-04_09-53-02.jpg

    Tain is where they boarded trains to be transported to other parts of the Western Front.

    2022-08-04_10-21-19.jpg

    There is a photo in the Tain Museum of the Black Watch memorial.

    2022-08-04_10-17-01.jpg


    As mentioned before, Nigg was also camp for the Cameronians.

    2022-08-04_16-35-58.jpg




    So what was at Nigg and the high concentration of Scottish Highlanders?
    It was home of the Scottish Command Depot. In the Great War, a command
    depot was where wounded soldiers recovered and rehabilitated to return to the
    front line.
    2022-08-04_09-23-56.jpg

    These are some useful Abbreviations used in WW1 by the British Medical Corps.

    2022-08-04_10-39-00.jpg
    94155545_1406348012883482_4077851678370430976_n.jpg

    And here is the watch.
    s-l500.jpg s-l1600.jpg

    So far Army records only show one possibility for Lt. Col MacCabe SMO.
    The below person matches most of the details according to the British Army List.
    However, the regiment he was assigned to is the "South Irish Horse" regiment, which
    until May 1918 was in Africa. Not sure if any Irish regiments were in Nigg.

    2022-08-04_15-45-02.jpg 2022-08-04_15-46-32.jpg 2022-08-04_15-41-49.jpg
    2022-08-04_20-46-18.jpg 2022-08-04_20-33-57.jpg 2022-08-04_20-38-48.jpg
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    Still have much more reading to do. Finding out who was "T Campbell" maybe too difficult.
    Campbell is a traditional Clan that contributed hundreds of clansmen to the Black Watch.
    An initial search produced more than two thousand possible T Campbell in the British Army
    in 1918. Interestingly, there is only one Lt. Col MacCabe Surgeon Major. And note, Nigg was
    also training grounds for Yeomanry.

    2022-08-04_16-15-17.jpg 2022-08-04_16-19-29.jpg


    I thought this photo was taken at Nigg/Tain, but not sure anymore. Can't seem to locate the original source site.
    94181519_1406347729550177_4306197158010290176_n.jpg

    This is a photo of a South Irish Horse Yoeman uniform. It strongly resembles the above photo taken of
    yoeman at Nigg/Tain.
    2022-08-05_09-34-06.jpg
     
    Edited Aug 6, 2022
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  5. noelekal Home For Wayward Watches Aug 5, 2022

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  6. Seiji Aug 5, 2022

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    Hello

    I hope these photos will be of some help. And thank you for the enthusiasm!
    The watch itself is nothing amazing, but it sure was associated with some of
    Scottland's elite.

    upload_2022-8-5_10-7-35.png
    upload_2022-8-5_10-10-4.png
     
    Edited Aug 5, 2022
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  7. noelekal Home For Wayward Watches Aug 5, 2022

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    That watch is amazing to me and would have an honored place in my collection.
     
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  8. Seiji Aug 5, 2022

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    This is perhaps my first Great War watch that hopefully I can identify a person associated with it.
    The story might not be that of changing the world, but those are far and few in between. At least
    this watch has uncovered some interesting aspects of the Scottish that I was not really aware of previously.

    Glad some of you enjoy it.
     
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  9. Seiji Aug 6, 2022

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    2022-08-06_04-49-37.jpg
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    2022-08-06_04-58-38.jpg 2022-08-06_04-59-27.jpg 2022-08-06_05-00-40.jpg
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    These were the Seaforth Highlanders on the Western Front
    140086.jpg

    So it was possible for the South Irish Horse soldiers to be at Nigg.
     
    Edited Aug 6, 2022
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  10. Seiji Aug 6, 2022

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    Indicates MacCabe re-enlisted.
    https://www.dib.ie/biography/maccabe-frederick-faber-a5111
    upload_2022-8-6_5-49-13.png


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    MacCabe, Frederick Faber (1868–1954), racehorse trainer and journalist, was born in Glasnevin, Dublin. Educated at Terenure College, Downside School, and TCD, he qualified as a medical doctor in 1891. In his late teens and early twenties he produced notable results in competition as a cyclist and cross-country runner. While administering a medical practice in south Co. Dublin, he pursued interests in sport and stock market speculation. He was a remarkably ambitious figure in the Irish sporting world by his mid twenties. When it became evident in 1894 that the Dublin monthly Irish Sportsman and Farmer was teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, he intervened with an offer of rescue finance in return for the post of managing-director with rights to a 10 per cent share of the annual profits. He soon persuaded the board to alter the title of the paper and supervised the launch of the first issue of the Irish Field & Gentleman's Gazette (24 Nov. 1894). Made editor in early 1895, he ran two regular columns, a commentary on racing issues as they arose and a guide to investment in the stock market. The turnover increased vastly and, as the shareholders were reluctant to fund expansion, MacCabe boldly borrowed the capital to buy up share ownership of the paper and to become proprietor. Offices were set up in D'Olier St., Dublin, and in Fleet St., London. After three profitable years he came unstuck in late 1898 when embroiled in an insider-dealing shares scandal, and was obliged to remove himself from the editorial and commercial management of the paper when a high court judgment was passed against his estate. He continued, however, to write on racing topics for the paper for many years.

    Having developed a small racing stables in Kilgobbin, Sandyford, Co. Dublin, in the mid 1890s, he began to have some success as a trainer. At the Leopardstown races on 21 August 1898 he took on the Turf Club, when his horse, Sabine Queen, was well beaten in a supposed five-furlong race, by a horse which he detected appearing to do an extraordinary time for the distance. His athletics career had accustomed him to assessment of performance by time, an approach unusual in contemporary Irish racing. He was able to prove that the race had been conducted over less than four-and-a-half furlongs. The Leopardstown executive was heavily penalised and racing rules were amended. Later that year Sabine Queen decisively beat the offending horse in a challenge and won the Irish Oaks. In late 1899 he gave up his medical practice to take a commission as regimental medical officer with the South Irish Horse for the duration of the Boer war. Retiring as surgeon-captain in March 1902, he returned to Ireland to renew training at Park Lodge, Sandyford. Having achieved some distinction on limited resources, he was invited by his neighbour Richard ‘Boss’ Croker (qv) to take over the training and management of his extensive stables at Glencairn, in November 1907. His sensitive management of the English-born horse Orby, previously underachieving for Croker, turned around her form by the Baldoyle Derby of December 1907, when she won commandingly. It took a stormy argument with Croker, nevertheless, for MacCabe to get the headstrong magnate to permit her entry to the Epsom Derby, though she was already a passionate favourite in Ireland. To the astonishment of the English press, which thought little of Irish training skills, Orby won by two lengths at the marvellous odds (for the sentimental Irish racing public) of 100 to 9. This was the first ‘Irish’ win at the Derby and was memorably encapsulated for MacCabe by an old woman in Dublin who expressed her delight at having ‘lived to see a catholic horse win the Derby’ (Hyland & Williams, 120). The partnership between MacCabe and Croker did not survive the year however. MacCabe was unable to prevent Croker from over-racing Orby into irremediable injury by August 1907, though winning the Irish Derby in June that year.

    Breaking up with Croker in late 1907 (having achieved two Derby winners and twenty-nine other winners in his brief tenure) MacCabe moved to Newmarket as a public trainer and achieved the remarkable success of training Signorinetta, for the Chevalier Ginistrelli of Italy, to win both the Epsom Derby and the English Oaks of 1908. His training career was never to attain these heights again. He served as medical officer in the South Irish Horse again during the first world war. Resident in Ireland by 1923, he joined the Free State army as medical colonel commandant. In May 1924 he opened a new racecourse at Mallow, Co. Cork, as manager and secretary of the local board. His book Human life and how it may be prolonged to 120 years was published in 1919; a revised edition, Human life, its enjoyment and prolongation, was published in 1924. From 1928 to 1943 he served as honorary secretary of the National Agricultural and Industrial Development Association (a forerunner of the IDA). He died 14 April 1954 at his home, Oreen, on Sandycove Road, Dublin. He never married.

    Sources
    Ir. Times, 15 Apr. 1954; S. J. Watson, Between the flags: a history of Irish steeplechasing (1969); Roger Mortimer, Richard Onslow, and Peter Willett (ed.), Biographical encyclopedia of British flat racing (1978); Guy St John Williams and Francis Hyland, The Irish Derby, 1866–1979 (1980); John Welcome, Irish horseracing: an illustrated history (1982); Fyffes; Fergus D'Arcy, Horses, lords and racing men: the Turf Club, 1790–1990 (1991); Irish Field, 26 Nov. 1994

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    Edited Aug 25, 2022
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  11. Seiji Aug 6, 2022

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    Maybe re-enlisted a third time?
    upload_2022-8-6_6-43-16.png
     
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  12. Seiji Aug 6, 2022

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    The watch is really beautiful in person. It has a mirror gloss enamel dial with chocolate lumen and gilt print.
    The case is .925 Sterling Silver with London hallmarks for 1915. It is a mere 33mm.
    The watch case is marked Arthur George Rendell of Clerkenwell Road, London, who were importers of Swiss watches from 1907. Everything is still original: band, mineral glass, and lumen.
     
    Edited Aug 6, 2022
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  13. Seiji Aug 6, 2022

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    So what is interesting about this movement is that it is actually fairly high quality if you examine it closely. It is rodium plated and decorated with Geneve Strips and Jeweled. Not exactly a dollar watch as was common during the Great War.
    upload_2022-8-6_20-0-56.png
    upload_2022-8-6_19-47-5.png

    The movement is a 15 Jewel General Watch Company movement. Some of you real
    die hard watch scholars should catch on what that means.
    upload_2022-8-6_19-47-25.png

    The more common name of "La Generale Watch Co" is...

    upload_2022-8-6_19-50-21.png

    upload_2022-8-6_19-50-51.png
    upload_2022-8-6_20-17-0.png

    So basically we have an early WW1 Helvetia 13 Ligne Trench Watch with black enamel gloss gilt dial with a high grade movement with a little Scottish / Irish WW1 history. Not bad.
     
    Edited Aug 6, 2022
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  14. Seiji Aug 8, 2022

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    The link between the Seaforth Highlanders, Special Reserve, and Lt. Col. F F MacCabe Medical Officer seems to be pretty solid as recorded in the 1915 Hart's Army List. Note: there are no other medical officers in the South Irish Horse. He is therefore the Senior Medical Officer (SMO). Update: I thought this was pretty solid, but after a few more hours, I now realize that the Special Reserve was disbursed over many divisions so although the possibility is strong that Lt. Col F F MacCabe was at Nigg, the Hart Army List does not show enough details to be absolutely certain in my opinion. It does show that the theory might still be correct that MacCabe was attached to a Scottish division at Nigg.

    [​IMG]

    2022-08-08_06-12-13.jpg 2022-08-08_06-09-41.jpg 2022-08-08_06-46-36.jpg

    [​IMG]
     
    Edited Aug 8, 2022
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  15. Omegafanman Aug 9, 2022

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    The area of Tain and Nigg also have a strong whisky history. Interesting to see the economic impact the wars had for them locally as well. The story of the blind captain is also worth a read.

    HISTORY OF GLENMORANGIE

    1468 Establishment of Morangie and Tarlogie as chaplinaries of St Duthac's Church, Tain.

    1494 First mention of whisky-making in the exchequer rolls of Scotland.

    1703 Evidence of distilling at Glenmorangie - an ''aquavitae pott with it ffleake and stand'' is mentioned in the will of George Ross, great grandson of Thomas the Abbot.

    1820 Establishment of a distillery at Tain.

    1880 Record of Glenmorangie being exported to Rome and San Francisco.

    1918 Glenmorangie is bought by Macdonald and Muir of Leith.

    1931-1936 Distillery closed owing to the economic effects of the Great Depression.

    1980 Number of stills at the distillery is doubled to four.

    1990 Number of stills doubled again, to eight.

    1994 Distillery shop opens and regular tours for visitors commence.

    1997 Museum opens.

    https://scotchwhisky.com/magazine/features/24816/a-whisky-history-of-easter-ross/

    The roots of whisky go deep in Easter Ross, home of fabled Ferintosh and now the location of a diverse collection of distilleries, including Glenmorangie, Dalmore and Balblair. Iain Russell outlines the region’s chequered whisky history.
    Once upon a time, long before people talked of Speyside and the other famous whisky regions, there was Ferintosh.
    During the 1700s, Ferintosh became the popular generic name for good Highland whisky, much as Glenlivet was to become a century later. The name disappeared from the whisky market long ago; nevertheless, the legacy of Ferintosh was to have a profound influence on the social and economic history of Easter Ross, the broad and fertile coastal plain which includes the famous Black Isle peninsula and lies to the north of Inverness. And Easter Ross remains one of the most diverse, if under-appreciated, whisky-producing regions of Scotland today.

    In the 18th century, it was said that more whisky was made in the 16 distilleries on the Ferintosh Estate, near Dingwall, than in the whole of the rest of Scotland. Such was its mythical status that the 17th-century traveller Martin Martin reported:

    ‘The children of Ferintosh… are taught in their infancy to drink aquavitae and are never observed to be troubled with worms.’

    Its praises were sung by some of the most influential figures in 18th-century Scottish culture, including Robert Burns and Sir Walter Scott.

    The lands of Ferintosh had been virtually exempted from excise duty in 1690, as compensation to the local laird for damages done to the estate by Jacobite soldiers during the so-called ‘Glorious Revolution’.

    The exemption encouraged the development of a thriving distilling industry, and the historian Ian Mowat estimated that about 1,000 people were employed in distilling there at its peak.

    The ending of the privilege in 1784 did not put a stop to whisky making – it simply encouraged distillers to continue making ‘Ferintosh’ elsewhere in the region, either with or (more usually) without an excise licence.

    The growth of the illicit whisky industry in the early 19th century had serious social consequences for Easter Ross. It created a climate of lawlessness in which a large part of the population became involved in the manufacture or sale of illicit spirits.

    Excise raids uncovered unlicensed stills and casks of illicit whisky hidden under beds, in middens and in privies in houses all across the region. Local newspapers regularly carried stories of violent confrontations between excisemen and whisky ‘free traders’, in towns as well as in the countryside.

    Meanwhile, local landowners, including the Sheriff of Ross-shire himself, were accused of failing to punish unlicensed distillers and dealers (who were often their tenants or their customers) when they appeared in the local courts.

    It was that said that more offenders were prosecuted in Dingwall than anywhere else in Scotland – and the town became home to ‘swarms of lawyers’, attracted by the plentiful demand for their services.

    Those not involved in the illegal manufacture of whisky were very often engaged in its sale and consumption, and local newspapers carried startling tales of drunkenness and depravity.

    Captain Hugh Munro,(https://scotchwhisky.com/magazine/whisky-heroes/8004/hugh-munro-the-blind-captain/) owner of Teaninich distillery, complained that even the public houses in Dingwall and Tain, the largest towns in the area, sold only smuggled whisky to their customers.

    Illicit whisky makers easily undercut the prices of the dozens of new licensed distillers, driving the latter out of business to the extent that only two – Balblair (founded in 1790) and Teaninich (1821) – remained active by the end of the 1820s.

    It took until the 1830s for the excise authorities to stamp out illicit distilling in all but the more remote parts of Easter Ross, and for entrepreneurs to invest once more in licensed distilleries. Glen Ord was founded in 1838 and Dalmore the following year – both by landowners seeking to develop the demand for their tenants’ barley.

    Glenmorangie was established at Morangie Farm in 1843 by William Matheson, an experienced distiller who had learned his trade at Balblair and knew how profitable it could be to combine farming and distilling.

    Initially, the licensed distillers sold their spirits primarily to local customers. In 1864, however, the forerunner of the Highland Railway connected all the distilleries in the area to Inverness and the south. Highland whisky from Easter Ross soon found its way to all parts of the UK, and was shipped to customers overseas in the US, Australia and New Zealand.

    The opening of new markets led to a boom in the industry in Easter Ross in the late 19th century. Balblair was rebuilt in 1872; Dalmore doubled in size in 1874 and was extended again in 1894; Glenmorangie was rebuilt in 1887; and Glen Ord was rebuilt by new owners after 1896 to four times the size of the original.

    A new distillery, Ben Wyvis (subsequently renamed Ferintosh) was founded near Dingwall in 1879, and Glenskiach, at Evanton, in 1896.

    But the good times did not last…

    The Easter Ross distilleries suffered years of hardship in the first half of the 20th century, during two World Wars and one of the deepest worldwide recessions in history.

    All were mothballed for various periods, but only Ferintosh and Glenskiach failed to reopen. The others recovered with the blended Scotch whisky boom that followed the Second World War, and with the growing interest in single malts from the 1970s.

    A different kind of whisky distilling came to Easter Ross in the early 1960s, with the opening of a new grain distillery – the first in the Highlands, and the largest in Europe.

    Invergordon distillery was conceived as a bold initiative to help alleviate unemployment in the town and to support the ailing farming industry of the eastern Highlands. Invergordon (which briefly included a single malt distillery, Ben Wyvis) grew rapidly to employ, at its peak, 400 men and women.

    The success of Invergordon encouraged the location of other industries in the area, permitting much-needed diversification in the local economy. It also provided further demand for high-quality malting barley, encouraging farmers to specialise in the crop.

    Two farmer-owned co-operatives were set up – The Black Isle Grain Group, in 1977, and Easter Ross Grain, in 1988 – to develop local resources and expertise. They amalgamated in the 1990s to create Highland Grain Ltd, which has established Easter Ross’ reputation as a centre of excellence in the production and supply of this vital whisky ingredient.

    Today, the industry in Easter Ross continues to grow and develop. There have been major expansion projects in recent years at Glen Ord, Teaninich and Glenmorangie. At Invergordon, owner Whyte & Mackay has announced an ambitious modernisation programme, albeit including a number of redundancies.

    Meanwhile, there are signs of a revival of the ‘Ferintosh’ tradition of small-scale whisky production: Heather Nelson is building the Toulvaddie Distillery at Fearn, near Nigg, and the crowdfunded and energy self-sufficient GlenWyvis, near Dingwall, opened in 2017 and promises to become one of the leading and most innovative lights in the new wave of Scottish ‘craft’ distilleries.
     
    Edited Aug 9, 2022
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  16. Seiji Aug 9, 2022

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    Almost 550 years of Whiskey making history? That is impressive. Is the area still very active in crafting spirits?
     
  17. Omegafanman Aug 9, 2022

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    Yes very much so. As with watches some are now very famous but there are still some niche micro distillery’s I believe.
     
  18. noelekal Home For Wayward Watches Aug 9, 2022

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    I'm finding your post to be fascinating Omegafanman and I don't even imbibe! I'd take it up now, but have reached the age of 65 without it so guess I won't start now.
     
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  19. Omegafanman Aug 9, 2022

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    It is a very slippery slope…Gin did it for the English…..

    William III of England, a Dutchman originally known as William of Orange (“Sounds very ‘Game of Thrones,’ doesn’t it?” Ford says, rightly) became King of England, Ireland, and Scotland in 1689.

    “He began his reign by implementing trade-war and protectionist-style economic tactics against France that might make some modern politicians jealous,” Ford laughs. “He enforced blockades and introduced heavy taxes on French wine and Cognac in an attempt to weaken their economy.”

    At the same time, William III instituted The Corn Laws in England. These decrees provided tax breaks on spirits production, resulting in what Ford calls “a distilling free-for-all.”

    “This led to a period in England that is often dubbed the ‘Gin Craze,’ a period where a pint of gin was cheaper than a pint of beer,” Ford says.

    https://www.fordsgin.com/articles/complete-and-slightly-insane-history-gin-england-vinepair
     
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  20. Seiji Aug 9, 2022

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