Anyone for Tennis - Djokovic situation discussion time ?

MtV · Jan 8, 2022

Wetworks
I hate to delve in here as I remained mostly out of the previous threads the past year or so. However, I will say that over-reliance on science/scientists has proven to be disastrous as a whole. Boots-on-the-ground such as myself and ICU MD mentioned can categorically tell you this beast has changed, and has progressed as many previously predicted/suspected it would; higher infection rates with lower death/hospitalization rates.

Well, I’m not saying the strategy won’t be changed. If there’s scientific findings indicating this to be the most likely to succeed, then by all means.

Until then, and generally in my life, I rely on collective scientific knowledge and wouldn’t know why I should trust in other opinions that are based on anything else. Claiming this to be a “disastrous” approach and relying on whatever unscientific source one might chose is, to me, a very dangerous business.

I turn to watchmakers for help with my watches. I turn to mechanics to have my car repaired, to a baker when I fancy bread and to virologists when there’s a pandemic.

MRC · Jan 8, 2022

Paul m
No,no mistake.Botany Bay,Union Jack in the top corner,

Somewhere (TM) I have a map of Australia with no west coast at all because it had not yet been surveyed (Cook's speciality). Because it's a copper-plate print it's easy to see that most of it was engraved by just one person, but there are a few later additions in a different hand, including Botany Bay. To my mind that dates it to the late 1770s. And predates the Union Flag..... 😜

cvalue13 · Jan 8, 2022

Omegafanman
I had a colleague who was afraid to travel in / did not want to use the tube etc. WFH was not an option. He is an older guy so I am not judging.... then first chance he gets he is off on a flight to Jamaica....

Not to overtly ignore my own advice, but: this is I think a misguided critique.

Risks are additive, and weighed against benefits - that’s just how life works.

That a person does not want to *daily* community both ways on a risk-adjusted basis has no apparent relationship to whether - in just this one example - an individual without a lot of life to live after the stresses of two years of restricted life experiences feels that they’ve reached a point where they will singularly accept the risk of a vacation, on a risk-adjusted basis.

Similarly: immunocompromised people go on vacations, too, despite the risks, even if they choose to not go to the grocery store because of the risks. The reason is, people are both complex and even fallible.

As the partial (fractional) owner of a global company dealing with the difficult choices around workplace decisions, I’ll admit to being perhaps irrationally irritated by this trope of “anyone who vacations clearly isn’t actually worried about illness.”

Surely there are bad actors, everywhere - but attempting to require complete consistency of judgment in the midst of a life altering pandemic seems an expectation sure to disappoint.

Togri v. 2.0 · Jan 8, 2022

Dan S
There are a few other notable pro athletes in the US (Aaron Rodgers, Kylie Irving) who are taking similar stances, despite causing a lot of trouble for themselves and everyone around them.

Let’s not start on Aaron Rodgers 😡😡 I actually liked him for a long time accepting his prima donna behaviour but in the end I couldn’t keep rooting for him. I am a great Chiefs fan but I really wish that Patrick Mahomes’ brother would shut the #%€$ up 😁

Foo2rama · Jan 8, 2022

I’m disagreeing with the premise of the original post. He is not Banned from competition. He is not permitted to enter a country due to that countries laws.

this happens all of the time to people even athletes.

Pvt-Public
Where ever you go there are mixed messages on this. Just in my area of northern Virginia there are a couple.
1. Masks required by all.
2. Masks optional for vaccinated persons.
3.Proof of vaccination required.
4.Proof of vaccination and mask required.
But as I understand it, (I am not a Dr. or a lawyer) according the the U.S. HIPA regulations I don’t have to answer medical questions to anybody, and even my Dr. requires a a signed release to give out any of my medical information. So how is enforcing numbers 2-4 legal?
Now, I could also be completely wrong but, I am willing to be corrected. Living is learning.

please tell me where in the health care portability act it states anything even remotely like that.

I’m asking as I’m trained as a HIPPA auditor and I’ve never seen it.
2-4 is very easy if you have proof of vaccination or a cellphone in almost all states.

Wetworks · Jan 8, 2022

Archer
Not really. Australia went through a great deal of hard lockdowns in various places at the start of this pandemic, and early on it was quite successful at limiting spread, hospitalizations, and deaths. Unfortunately that advantage was squandered somewhat (the family we have there there uses much harsher words I can assure you) when the PM failed to get in early on vaccine orders. However they have done a very good job of catching up on vaccination rates considering how far behind they were initially. They are of course well ahead of the US, and have pretty much caught up with Canada now in terms of people fully vaccinated (2 doses).

For the Open, to be an in-person spectator you have to be fully vaccinated to get in, and masks are required indoors.

Lots of inaccuracies and simplistic stuff here, none of which I wish to debate in-depth (and frankly, ad nauseum). I'll leave you to it, take care, I know you have your health challenges.

Foo2rama · Jan 8, 2022

Wetworks
Lots of inaccuracies and simplistic stuff here, none of which I wish to debate in-depth (and frankly, ad nauseum). I'll leave you to it, take care, I know you have your health challenges.

Odd since as a former data scientist he seems to be right on with the data that I’ve been following.

Pianotuna · Jan 8, 2022

Archer
Not really. Australia went through a great deal of hard lockdowns in various places at the start of this pandemic, and early on it was quite successful at limiting spread, hospitalizations, and deaths. Unfortunately that advantage was squandered somewhat (the family we have there there uses much harsher words I can assure you) when the PM failed to get in early on vaccine orders. However they have done a very good job of catching up on vaccination rates considering how far behind they were initially. They are of course well ahead of the US, and have pretty much caught up with Canada now in terms of people fully vaccinated (2 doses).

For the Open, to be an in-person spectator you have to be fully vaccinated to get in, and masks are required indoors.

As your family will confirm, we’re happy to have live sport again in this country. Tennis fans are hanging out for the Open. But entry to watch comes with terms and conditions. Turns out that this applies to competitors too.
Aware of how completely off the rails previous threads went I’m conscious of sticking to the core issue, but it’d be easy to digress on the multiple failings of our Prime Minister ScoMo from Marketing, or the least liked superstar sportsperson on the planet.
Could Novaxx sway OF opinion in his favour by ostentatiously flashing his FOIS Speedtimer on his next Twitter post?
Could Morrison improve his public standing by fronting up at a sporting event and NOT putting on a stupid hat/coat/helmet/uniform/stethoscope?

Fortunately, probably not, on both counts.

bugger. I just digressed. :whipped:

(I’ve wanted to use that emoji for ages)

Wetworks · Jan 8, 2022

MtV
Well, I’m not saying the strategy won’t be changed. If there’s scientific findings indicating this to be the most likely to succeed, then by all means.

Until then, and generally in my life, I rely on collective scientific knowledge and wouldn’t know why I should trust in other opinions that are based on anything else. Claiming this to be a “disastrous” approach and relying on whatever unscientific source one might chose is, to me, a very dangerous business.

I turn to watchmakers for help with my watches. I turn to mechanics to have my car repaired, to a baker when I fancy bread and to virologists when there’s a pandemic.

So do I, and all the info I've read and shared the past two years has guided me. All peer-reviewed, too. And while my observations are anecdotal (yet professional, I'm an ER RN in NYC), I'd say they qualify as pretty reliable advice. If you actually read the studies I have and compared them to the policies we've seen, then you too would come to the same conclusions I have, that they have been largely ineffectual and disastrous.

Wetworks · Jan 8, 2022

Foo2rama
Odd since as a former data scientist he seems to be right on with the data that I’ve been following.

And as a current ER RN, I know what I know too. But this is why I have resisted these threads; they're largely unproductive pissing contests. Again, feel free to have at it, just not at my expense.

Archer · Jan 8, 2022

Wetworks
And as a current ER RN, I know what I know too. But this is why I have resisted these threads; they're largely unproductive pissing contests. Again, feel free to have at it, just not at my expense.

By all means, you can not participate in these threads if they bother you so much.

Darlinboy · Jan 8, 2022

The Australian Open is incredibly competitive....

miss two shots and you're OUT!

😜

ATWG · Jan 8, 2022

Shabbaz
The worst thing is that Djokovic eventually will be the best player of all time (in terms of winning grandslams)...

When was the last time an athlete of his stature and accomplishment was disliked so much? In Tennis, you can point to Jimmy Conners, McEnroe, Agassi and maybe even Ivan Lendel as players with many detractors. Most of them eventually learned from their experiences and won the public over at the end of their careers. Heck, McEnroe whom I hated as player, is a great television analyst and personality. None rises to level of disdain there is for The Joker, I literally can’t Bring myself to watch him play. Maybe, he’ll eventually come around like others have in the past, only time will tell.

Archer · Jan 8, 2022

ATWG
When was the last time an athlete of his stature and accomplishment was disliked so much? In Tennis, you can point to Jimmy Conners, McEnroe, Agassi and maybe even Ivan Lendel as players with many detractors. Most of them eventually learned from their experiences and won the public over at the end of their careers. Heck, McEnroe whom I hated as player, is a great television analyst and personality. None rises to level of disdain there is for The Joker, I literally can’t Bring myself to watch him play. Maybe, he’ll eventually come around like others have in the past, only time will tell.

There have been plenty of tennis players that rubbed many the wrong way, but most of them have seemed to learn from it as you mention. Even in the current crop of players you have Kyrios, but he has matured quite a bit in the last few years. Is someone like Fognini redeemable? In my view not so far, but time will tell if he hangs on in the sport long enough to do so.

Going back to former players, I think the only tennis player that has come close is maybe Ilie Nastase - he never seemed to "improve" as a human over the years from what I saw.

I also hated Johnny Mac when he played, but I love the guy as a commentator. Was never a Jimmy fan, and probably never will be...

texasmade · Jan 8, 2022

ATWG
When was the last time an athlete of his stature and accomplishment was disliked so much? In Tennis, you can point to Jimmy Conners, McEnroe, Agassi and maybe even Ivan Lendel as players with many detractors. Most of them eventually learned from their experiences and won the public over at the end of their careers. Heck, McEnroe whom I hated as player, is a great television analyst and personality. None rises to level of disdain there is for The Joker, I literally can’t Bring myself to watch him play. Maybe, he’ll eventually come around like others have in the past, only time will tell.

I remember Serena Williams getting a lot of hate but not as much anymore. Lebron James also gets a lot of hate for basically not being MJ.

Foo2rama · Jan 8, 2022

ATWG
When was the last time an athlete of his stature and accomplishment was disliked so much? In Tennis, you can point to Jimmy Conners, McEnroe, Agassi and maybe even Ivan Lendel as players with many detractors. Most of them eventually learned from their experiences and won the public over at the end of their careers. Heck, McEnroe whom I hated as player, is a great television analyst and personality. None rises to level of disdain there is for The Joker, I literally can’t Bring myself to watch him play. Maybe, he’ll eventually come around like others have in the past, only time will tell.

Lewis…. Verstappen…James… Bryant… Rodman…

Wetworks · Jan 8, 2022

Archer
By all means, you can not participate in these threads if they bother you so much.

If my recognizing that they are pissing contests qualifies as me being "bothered" in your usually pedantic observations, then sure. If you need evidence of said pissing, kindly refer back to your feelings during your passive-aggressive, ironically off-target, post I just quoted. Oh, and include this one since I'm being cunty. And bothered. Nothing an Old Fashioned won't fix though. I'll dip out and let you have at it. Cheers!!!

NYCwatchgal · Jan 8, 2022

Per BBC link: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-59897918

The tennis star has a track record when it comes to questionable scientific claims.

In his book Serve to Win, Djokovic described how in 2010 he met with a nutritionist who asked him to hold a piece of bread in his left hand while he pressed down on his right arm. Djokovic claims he was much weaker while holding the bread, and cited this as evidence of gluten intolerance.

And during an Instagram live, he claimed that positive thought could "cleanse" polluted water, adding that "scientists have proven that molecules in water react to our emotions."

According to Dr David Nunan, a senior researcher at the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at the University of Oxford, "on the balance of probabilities it is highly unlikely that such claims are true - at least not by current conventions of scientific theory and practice."

Archer · Jan 8, 2022

Wetworks
If my recognizing that they are pissing contests qualifies as me being "bothered" in your usually pedantic observations, then sure. If you need evidence of said pissing, kindly refer back to your feelings during your passive-aggressive, ironically off-target, post I just quoted. Oh, and include this one since I'm being cunty. And bothered. Nothing an Old Fashioned won't fix though. I'll dip out and let you have at it. Cheers!!!

It seems as if you come into these threads to create arguments, and get the threads closed. I hope you are not successful.

TimeODanaos · Jan 8, 2022

Archer
There have been plenty of tennis players that rubbed many the wrong way, but most of them have seemed to learn from it as you mention... Ilie Nastase - he never seemed to "improve" as a human over the years from what I saw.

Lots of Marcelo Rios stories - and he was not liked in the locker room either. But hey - there are probably plenty unlikeable people in my workplace too I guess!