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Anyone for Tennis - Djokovic situation discussion time ?

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Omegafanman
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We have had tennis threads and a few unsuccessful Covid threads... looks like they are colliding.
Two years into this evolving situation is it possible for us to have a factual debate without a thread lock or deletion?

Question - should unvaccinated sports stars be banned from international competition?

Rules are rules and I am in two minds on this one - seems crazy he would travel without approval for entry.

On the other hand as the vaccines are not giving strong transmission protection and he would probably pay for private care in the unlikely scenario he got sick what difference does it make to anyone?

I also today saw this interview with a UK ICU doctor who is not taking the vaccine / does not think it is appropriate for everyone - which lends some support to Djokovic. For sure it is a strong benefit for at risk groups so this is not a suggestion that people should not take vaccines or regular boosters.

https://news.sky.com/video/covid-19...nges-sajid-javid-over-mandatory-jabs-12511256
 
Omegafanman
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I should add I was in London this week, train, tube, coffee, University and a hospital. I followed the rules and lateral flow tested negative on my return (in two years despite hot spot exposure I have never tested positive... and I have tested a lot)
 
TimeODanaos
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I think this may just be a case where three voices - TA, State, and Federal - failed to harmonize unfortunately. I don't think it's a sound basis either for all-encompassing bans or for individual relaxations, just a reminder how important it is to give people a consistent message. Regrettably all sides will now just defend their own trenches, and some people will be made unhappy by the outcome. My money on federal government to win though.
 
Pianotuna
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I think your question should be, should international sports stars be excluded from rules governing ordinary members of society. Speaking as a Victorian who has missed under lockdown funerals of close family members, births, milestone family events not to mention being unable to work, and not including the terribly sad stories of others who could not cross State lines to see dying relatives, etc, I’m a little over how film stars can come and go apparently at ease so I’m not inclined to easing rules for anyone. Let alone heavily indulged and self entitled sports stars. This bloke can go take a running jump. Tried gaming the system. Sod off.
 
Omegafanman
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Pianotuna Pianotuna
I think your question should be, should international sports stars be excluded from rules governing ordinary members of society. Speaking as a Victorian who has missed under lockdown funerals of close family members, births, milestone family events not to mention being unable to work, and not including the terribly sad stories of others who could not cross State lines to see dying relatives, etc, I’m a little over how film stars can come and go apparently at ease so I’m not inclined to easing rules for anyone. Let alone heavily indulged and self entitled sports stars. This bloke can go take a running jump. Tried gaming the system. Sod off.

I guess another question could be is it time to review the rules based on new data?
 
Pvt-Public
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Where ever you go there are mixed messages on this. Just in my area of northern Virginia there are a couple.
1. Masks required by all.
2. Masks optional for vaccinated persons.
3.Proof of vaccination required.
4.Proof of vaccination and mask required.
But as I understand it, (I am not a Dr. or a lawyer) according the the U.S. HIPA regulations I don’t have to answer medical questions to anybody, and even my Dr. requires a a signed release to give out any of my medical information. So how is enforcing numbers 2-4 legal?
Now, I could also be completely wrong but, I am willing to be corrected. Living is learning.
Edited:
 
Pianotuna
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Omegafanman Omegafanman
We have had tennis threads and a few unsuccessful Covid threads... looks like they are colliding.
Two years into this evolving situation is it possible for us to have a factual debate without a thread lock or deletion?

Question - should unvaccinated sports stars be banned from international competition?

Rules are rules and I am in two minds on this one - seems crazy he would travel without approval for entry.

On the other hand as the vaccines are not giving strong transmission protection and he would probably pay for private care in the unlikely scenario he got sick what difference does it make to anyone?

I also today saw this interview with a UK ICU doctor who is not taking the vaccine / does not think it is appropriate for everyone - which lends some support to Djokovic. For sure it is a strong benefit for at risk groups so this is not a suggestion that people should not take vaccines or regular boosters.

https://news.sky.com/video/covid-19...nges-sajid-javid-over-mandatory-jabs-12511256
Just to clear up any doubt I may have left over my position 😀
Djokovic tried it on. If it were, for instance, the summer olympics in China next month does anyone think he’d have fronted up at Shanghai International with dodgy papers? Does anyone think that any athletes, stars or not, attending the Winter Olympics will be unvaccinated?
 
Togri v. 2.0
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Respect for Djokovic’s talent, which is undeniable, but I have never liked him as a player or sports persona and all his corona antics haven’t changed my opinion but rather re-enforced it.
 
MtV
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I couldn’t care less for the a sport, I have to admit, but the behavior of that guy did grab my attention.

He allegedly tested positive for COVID on 16th December.
He attended quite a few public appointments on the 16th and 17th, though, interestingly.
And the deadline to be granted an exemption from the COVID immigration rules for the Australien Open due to a recent infection was on the 10th, apparently.

This all sounds very, very dodgy to me - but we’ll see what the court session etc brings. Either way, I don’t see how exceptions for sportsmen and -women make anything better. We do want to motivate as many people as possible to get vaccinated, as it does still make an infection a bit less likely, but most of all, a heavily symptomatic infection a lot less likely, which in turn puts less pressure on a country’s health system and thus protects those who actually can’t be vaccinated. So why grant any special rights to unvaccinated tennis pros for failing to act as role models. Doesn’t make sense to me.
 
Omegafanman
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MtV MtV
I couldn’t care less for the a sport, I have to admit, but the behavior of that guy did grab my attention.

He allegedly tested positive for COVID on 16th December.
He attended quite a few public appointments on the 16th and 17th, though, interestingly.
And the deadline to be granted an exemption from the COVID immigration rules for the Australien Open due to a recent infection was on the 10th, apparently.

This all sounds very, very dodgy to me - but we’ll see what the court session etc brings. Either way, I don’t see how exceptions for sportsmen and -women make anything better. We do want to motivate as many people as possible to get vaccinated, as it does still make an infection a bit less likely, but most of all, a heavily symptomatic infection a lot less likely, which in turn puts less pressure on a country’s health system and thus protects those who actually can’t be vaccinated. So why grant any special rights to unvaccinated tennis pros for failing to act as role models. Doesn’t make sense to me.

The ICU doctor / sky news interview linked on my OP takes a different view based on the current data. Is this becoming rules for the sake of rules. The situation is changing and some think we have backed ourselves into a corner with the mono narrative (fully understanding the need for that at the start of this emergency)
 
MtV
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Omegafanman Omegafanman
The ICU doctor / sky news interview linked on my OP takes a different view based on the current data. Is this becoming rules for the sake of rules. The situation is changing and some think we have backed ourselves into a corner with the mono narrative (fully understanding the need for that at the start of this emergency)

I saw that, but - with all due respect to him for his work - would want to listen to a majority among scientists, so as of now this interview doesn’t seem relevant to me. Which isn’t saying there won’t be a change in our position at some point, of course, but I‘d want to wait until most scientists agree that’s the case.

By the way: It’s possible to have an anti-body count of basically zero a few weeks after an infection, too.
 
stevec14
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I think it’s a very difficult question and not really just one for sports people.

part of the reason we are being restricted is because of fear of hospitals being overrun. There was some data over the festive period that said that the majority of people in hospital beds in the U.K. with covid were unvaccinated (yes, before anyone says it there were fat people and smokers there too).

I think everyone has the right to choose whether they have the vaccine - to me, that is a fundamental right to choose. But with those choices come consequences. My view is that some travel and leisure choices need to be maybe limited for those who choose not to (and indeed I think travel for anti vaccination people will be limited this year).

It seems to me we are being cautious because of the minority. It’s about time governments round the world start to differentiate between those who comply and those who don’t - and frankly I think the Djokovic situation, while badly handled, is a start to allowing those who have complied back on the road to a more normal future.
 
Vercingetorix
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I kinda want Novak to get to play after all his drama, being held captive etc. Then sent packing by a nobody the first time he plays. And get booed like nobody’s business to crush his ego👍.
 
LesXL
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Vercingetorix Vercingetorix
I kinda want Novak to get to play after all his drama, being held captive etc. Then sent packing by a nobody the first time he plays. And get booed like nobody’s business to crush his ego👍.
He is not "held captive"... He can leave whenever he wants. He decided to stay, hoping the "martyr" status gives more leverage on his appeal.
If he wanted to be certain to play, he should have gotten vaccinated. Problem solved.

As others above have pointed out, player record is undeniable, his persona and positions are shameful.

There are different interests clashing and miscommunications or manipulation.

The AO has interest in him playing trying to beat the record there (rather than at another slam), and so they are happy to setup specific rules and protocols to ease his participation.

The Aussie government has public interest and future election (politics) in mind, and obviously after all the population has gone through, wants to show a strong hand irrelevant of the person fame/status.

Djokovic is a selfish bast$#& who is totally insensitive to all the pain the Melbourne population has gone through in the past 2 years, and is happy to take advantage of any options given to him to sneak in, doing anything previously arriving to get the exemption. And now, position himself as a victim.

Was there any miscommunication between, organisers, local government and federal government... Maybe, or maybe nobody wanted to say no, and hoped that his arrival wasn't going to be problematic in the eyes of the Australian population. It backfired... Tough luck for Djokovic, he could have avoided this whole thing to start with

And of course, the medias now jump on the juicy story to make it bigger.
 
blufinz52
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Pvt-Public Pvt-Public
according the the U.S. HIPA regulations I don’t have to answer medical questions to anybody,

HIPAA does not prohibit you from providing your medical information to anyone. The law prohibits medical professional from disseminating your medical information. Of course, it's within your rights to not disclose any personal information to anyone.
 
Darlinboy
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Omegafanman Omegafanman
Two years into this evolving situation is it possible for us to have a factual debate without a thread lock or deletion?

🍿
 
Omegafanman
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Some interesting and measured comments - I appreciate all the contributions. Hopefully people will keep things factual and friendly. It is good to see and understand different viewpoints and like the virus the science and data is always evolving....
 
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