Anyone for Tennis - Djokovic situation discussion time ?

OzGaz68 · Jan 10, 2022

queriver
The saga continues... Now there are reports in the media here in Australia that Australian Border officials are investigating whether Djokovic lied on his entry form for Australia. From The Australian newspaper this afternoon: "In the latest twist to the world No 1’s visa saga it appears he made a false declaration claiming he had not travelled in the 14 days leading up to his arrival in Melbourne." "Social media posts show Djokovic was pictured in Belgrade Serbia on December 25 playing tennis in the street and posing with handball star Petar Djordjic. He was then seen playing tennis at the Soto Tennis Academy in Sotogrande south-east Spain on December 31, 2021."

Confusion worse confounded.

Observer · Jan 11, 2022

Why don’t they just give him a Covid test? He can’t transmit the disease if he doesn’t have it.

dsio · Jan 11, 2022

Observer
Why don’t they just give him a Covid test? He can’t transmit the disease if he doesn’t have it.

Not sure what that has to do with anything even remotely tbh

Shabbaz · Jan 11, 2022

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59939507

Omegafanman · Jan 11, 2022

I will jump back in briefly (sorry ;0) Longer term I am interested see if Djokovic wins and if the UK Gov reverses it’s decision on mandatory vaccination of hospital staff. I will stay off the topic pending any updates.
Reading all the posts above (good robust contributions) and to give some balance for wider debate the Australian Tennis situation is becoming an issue not of public safety but of public sentiment after so much sacrifice. People and press have the power. I also think like the age of consent with the different variants, vaccines and boosters and infection rates - vaccine rules will be impacted by science, culture and economics- Yuval Noah Harris will have another best seller with his analysis in a few years.
In regards to the future a small bit of politics. Michael Gove Has been one of the most outspoken for strong rules in the UK. A UK Macron. From his interview in the times this week (copy below) he seems to be developing a more nuanced position, so maybe Djokovic will be able to play in the UK as well as France.....

Britain must learn to “live with Covid” after Boris Johnson was proved right on avoiding Christmas restrictions, Michael Gove has argued. The levelling up secretary said that after two or three weeks of pressure on the NHS, “we can look forward to the progressive lifting of restrictions” and start to treat Covid like other coronaviruses, which can cause the common cold. The prime minister is understood to be preparing a long-term plan for managing Covid without restrictions and other emergency measures as confidence grows in government that the NHS will weather the Omicron wave.Gove has been a leading advocate of Covid restrictions and acknowledged this morning that while he had been on the “more cautious end” of government discussions, Johnson had been right to overrule him.“His judgment has been vindicated,” Gove told Today on BBC Radio 4. “He argued publicly that we would be able to get through this with the booster campaign.”Gove said that “for the next two or three weeks, perhaps longer”, the focus would be dealing with pressure on the NHS, but said there would be “better times ahead” beyond that.“One of the things that we do need to think about is how we live with this particular type of coronavirus. There are other coronaviruses which are endemic and with which we live. Viruses tend to develop in a way whereby they become less harmful but more widespread,” he said.“So at some point it will have to stop being an emergency but that is likely to be a phase-out rather than an active point in time where somebody can declare the epidemic over.“It’s going to fade out and disappear much more slowly than that, I think.”Medley said ministers would then have to make decisions on free testing and future rounds of booster vaccinations using the same cost-benefit analysis as other non-Covid public health measures.“The decisions that the government makes about vaccinating, for example against measles, are based upon decisions in terms of public health, but also the costs, and I think to some extent that approach will become more and more likely as we go forward,” he said.“We have an annual vaccination programme against influenza, for example, we have childhood vaccination programmes against many other diseases, but we don’t, for example, vaccinate against chickenpox.”He said that making free tests available had been very valuable in managing Covid so far, arguing: “It does allow people to manage their risks. Since July the number of admissions was roughly constant, just under 1,000 a day, up until the beginning of December. “That can really only come about if people are managing their risks and the free diagnostics have enabled that.” Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, which represents hospital bosses, said he believed that the health service’s “front line will hold”. In London, where the Omicron outbreak first took off, hospital admissions are now down 17 per cent from the start of the year and the rolling average has fallen for seven days in a row. The capital has 3,867 Covid patients in hospital, the latest figures released on Sunday show - about half last January’s peak.

stevec14 · Jan 11, 2022

Omegafanman
I will jump back in briefly (sorry ;0) Longer term I am interested see if Djokovic wins and if the UK Gov reverses it’s decision on mandatory vaccination of hospital staff. I will stay off the topic pending any updates.
Reading all the posts above (good robust contributions) and to give some balance for wider debate the Australian Tennis situation is becoming an issue not of public safety but of public sentiment after so much sacrifice. People and press have the power. I also think like the age of consent with the different variants, vaccines and boosters and infection rates - vaccine rules will be impacted by science, culture and economics- Yuval Noah Harris will have another best seller with his analysis in a few years.
In regards to the future a small bit of politics. Michael Gove Has been one of the most outspoken for strong rules in the UK. A UK Macron. From his interview in the times this week (copy below) he seems to be developing a more nuanced position, so maybe Djokovic will be able to play in the UK as well as France.....

Britain must learn to “live with Covid” after Boris Johnson was proved right on avoiding Christmas restrictions, Michael Gove has argued. The levelling up secretary said that after two or three weeks of pressure on the NHS, “we can look forward to the progressive lifting of restrictions” and start to treat Covid like other coronaviruses, which can cause the common cold. The prime minister is understood to be preparing a long-term plan for managing Covid without restrictions and other emergency measures as confidence grows in government that the NHS will weather the Omicron wave.Gove has been a leading advocate of Covid restrictions and acknowledged this morning that while he had been on the “more cautious end” of government discussions, Johnson had been right to overrule him.“His judgment has been vindicated,” Gove told Today on BBC Radio 4. “He argued publicly that we would be able to get through this with the booster campaign.”Gove said that “for the next two or three weeks, perhaps longer”, the focus would be dealing with pressure on the NHS, but said there would be “better times ahead” beyond that.“One of the things that we do need to think about is how we live with this particular type of coronavirus. There are other coronaviruses which are endemic and with which we live. Viruses tend to develop in a way whereby they become less harmful but more widespread,” he said.“So at some point it will have to stop being an emergency but that is likely to be a phase-out rather than an active point in time where somebody can declare the epidemic over.“It’s going to fade out and disappear much more slowly than that, I think.”Medley said ministers would then have to make decisions on free testing and future rounds of booster vaccinations using the same cost-benefit analysis as other non-Covid public health measures.“The decisions that the government makes about vaccinating, for example against measles, are based upon decisions in terms of public health, but also the costs, and I think to some extent that approach will become more and more likely as we go forward,” he said.“We have an annual vaccination programme against influenza, for example, we have childhood vaccination programmes against many other diseases, but we don’t, for example, vaccinate against chickenpox.”He said that making free tests available had been very valuable in managing Covid so far, arguing: “It does allow people to manage their risks. Since July the number of admissions was roughly constant, just under 1,000 a day, up until the beginning of December. “That can really only come about if people are managing their risks and the free diagnostics have enabled that.” Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, which represents hospital bosses, said he believed that the health service’s “front line will hold”. In London, where the Omicron outbreak first took off, hospital admissions are now down 17 per cent from the start of the year and the rolling average has fallen for seven days in a row. The capital has 3,867 Covid patients in hospital, the latest figures released on Sunday show - about half last January’s peak.

Of course the moving forward with life and lack of restrictions could be because c.80% of people did the right thing and got vaccinated.

I don’t think that stands as an ‘I told you so’ from the anti vax community frankly.

Omegafanman · Jan 11, 2022

stevec14
Of course the moving forward with life and lack of restrictions could be because c.80% of people did the right thing and got vaccinated.

I don’t think that stands as an ‘I told you so’ from the anti vax community frankly.

I agree - framing this ‘I told you so’ from the anti vax community’ would not help anyone move forward.
Vaccination has been an important tool in the bag of protocols to reduce hospitalisation. As with any tool how and when it is used needs some discussion at times. 100% ongoing full vaccination status for the entire population does not seem practical or maybe necessary. The Tennis tour is a good test case of how it will work in future I guess.
I will add a lot of decisions had to be made in real time on limited and inaccurate data. Like in business there should be reviews on what worked best and why without being judgemental. Hindsight is always easy.

Observer · Jan 11, 2022

dsio
Not sure what that has to do with anything even remotely tbh

I thought preventing the spread of the virus was the goal.

Omegafanman · Jan 11, 2022

I am off to pick up some watches now (thankful to be able to do that) - I am pleased the thread made it this far and hope we can leave it up / revisit the situation in a few months. I am keeping everything crossed things keep improving for all of us. There have not been any easy answers and a lot of ongoing consequences for all of us.

dsio · Jan 11, 2022

Observer
I thought preventing the spread of the virus was the goal.

This is a thread about a tennis player who broke Australian immigration laws and had his visa initially canceled for not meeting the entry criteria, which was overturned due to a procedural oversight, and is now pending further investigation as it appears he has lied further on his immigration documents. Taking a test doesn’t get you out of lying to customs.

Observer · Jan 11, 2022

dsio
This is a thread about a tennis player who broke Australian immigration laws and had his visa initially canceled for not meeting the entry criteria, which was overturned due to a procedural oversight, and is now pending further investigation as it appears he has lied further on his immigration documents. Taking a test doesn’t get you out of lying to customs.

He had his visa initially approved, actually. I was confused about the point because so much has been said in this discussion about him endangering people.

dsio · Jan 11, 2022

Observer
He had his visa initially approved, actually. I was confused about the point because so much has been said in this discussion about him endangering people.

Well yes a visa has to be approved to be cancelled, but it was approved based on false information. The fact that he has endangered people with no regard at all is a separate issue from the immigration one, though it could well count against him if the minister decides to deport him.

padders · Jan 11, 2022

Sorry to labour the point but unless the info (now accepted by the BBC) that he was at an event on the 17th Dec 2021 is false, the fact he was seen hugging children the day after his supposedly positive PCR test suggests 2 options, neither all that appealing.

1) His team fabricated the positive PCR test for travel convenience and he went to the stamp event knowing he wasn't infectious.

2) He genuinely tested positive the day before he went to an event with people of all ages and mingled mask free, without caring that he could be passing on Covid.

Which is the better scenario? My money is on No 1 since he doesn't seem an idiot or a monster, just a bit selfish and badly advised. Like many sportsmen in fact.

marpro · Jan 11, 2022

Really can't understand why is Djoko commiting this PR suicide.

TasMike · Jan 11, 2022

dsio
Well yes a visa has to be approved to be cancelled, but it was approved based on false information. The fact that he has endangered people with no regard at all is a separate issue from the immigration one, though it could well count against him if the minister decides to deport him.

Australia is at fault here. The visa is granted, but not tested until a traveller arrives at the airport - the worst possible place. The logical process would be to test the information provided before granting the visa, especially if it's going to be tested anyway. Why wait until a person is on Australian soil before deciding that the decision to grant a visa was a mistake - it's an inane and illogical process that makes for good television, but very bad international relations.

Socks · Jan 11, 2022

padders
Sorry to labour the point but unless the info (now accepted by the BBC) that he was at an event on the 17th Dec 2021 is false, the fact he was seen hugging children the day after his supposedly positive PCR test suggests 2 options, neither all that appealing.

1) His team fabricated the positive PCR test for travel convenience and he went the the stamp event knowing he wasn't infectious.

2) He genuinely tested positive the day before he went to an event with people of all ages and mingled mask free, without caring that he could be passing on Covid.

Which is the better scenario? My money is on No 1 since he doesn't seem an idiot or a monster, just a bit selfish and badly advised. Like many sportsmen in fact.

I'm going with option 1.

I did hear on the Radio this morning (BBC Radio 5) that some journalist had access to NDJ's original Serbian 'positive' Covid result from the 16th Dec and early on in this process scanned the QR code on it - It came up as a negative result! He has since repeated this process and it's now reporting positive. Not sure if that's fake news.

pumpernikiel · Jan 11, 2022

I am with Nadal here. ‘I feel sorry for him but he knew the conditions months ago’. There is a mess everywhere in the world these days - but there was an initial rule that AO was supposed to be only for the vaccinated players. Period.

Vanallard · Jan 11, 2022

watchyouwant
About time the Serbian history is mentioned. You can shorten the events : Serbian war = Genocide. As long as the communist dictator, Tito, was in power : not a Piep. As soon as he was gone, Serbs killed every Muslim in every Neighbour village. Women and kids preferably, because they did not want Muslims to replicate . That Nazi like picture in Serbs heads , that they are the Balkans Master Race, you can still see today . That might explain a few things, because our younger USA members will not have heard about these attrocities due to their base School system avoiding international history. Which is a pity, because it would enable more Americans to draw current parallels to how Nazi's rose to power and who enabled and cheered them on. And there are still War Criminal Serbs from these murderous times hiding in Australia. Just visit the Opal mining areas, where always a few guys head straight to the Pubs back doors, if unknown faces enter the Pub. And too many questions are not welcome either. The solution there are many old , abandoned Opal mine shafts, rather not well secured and deep.... A bit of background info , why ex Yugoslavian Sport Fans behave in a certain way. And now back to Tennis....

Vanallard , yes, I've been to Serbia and other Ex- Yugoslavian countries more than once.

@watchyouwant - thank you for this well written summary of the propaganda that was fed to bobbleheads like you to justify the destruction of Yugoslavia, one of the last remnants of the Eastern Bloc/Communism. Must be convenient for you to have someone else to call the bad guys in Europe and deflect attention from the tens of millions killed by your native Germans over the past century, including millions of Serbs. I'm not going to waste time discussing the gross inaccuracies in your post or the ridiculous connection you make between Serbs and Nazis considering the former lost half of its male population in each of the world wars fighting against the latter, but it's a perfect reflection of the how many Westerners see Serbs and highlights the negative lens through which the media and many fans have seen Novak throughout his career and why he will never be accepted as the best to have ever played a sport that has historically been dominated by members of upper class, Western societies.

I probably should have picked a different time to express this alternative perspective as I don't support anti-vaxxers, nor do I support Novak going out in public after testing positive and I think this is one of the few instances over Novak's career where he has done something to deserve criticism, but the ignorant posts of some members were hard to ignore. The fact that a member compares an entire ethnic group to Nazis and no one bats an eye speaks volumes.

DanS - I’m not the only one who disagrees with you: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.esp...uggets-coach-michael-malone-says?platform=amp

Dan S · Jan 11, 2022

Omegafanman
I will jump back in briefly (sorry ;0) Longer term I am interested see if Djokovic wins and if the UK Gov reverses it’s decision on mandatory vaccination of hospital staff. I will stay off the topic pending any updates.
Reading all the posts above (good robust contributions) and to give some balance for wider debate the Australian Tennis situation is becoming an issue not of public safety but of public sentiment after so much sacrifice. People and press have the power. I also think like the age of consent with the different variants, vaccines and boosters and infection rates - vaccine rules will be impacted by science, culture and economics- Yuval Noah Harris will have another best seller with his analysis in a few years.
In regards to the future a small bit of politics. Michael Gove Has been one of the most outspoken for strong rules in the UK. A UK Macron. From his interview in the times this week (copy below) he seems to be developing a more nuanced position, so maybe Djokovic will be able to play in the UK as well as France.....

Britain must learn to “live with Covid” after Boris Johnson was proved right on avoiding Christmas restrictions, Michael Gove has argued. The levelling up secretary said that after two or three weeks of pressure on the NHS, “we can look forward to the progressive lifting of restrictions” and start to treat Covid like other coronaviruses, which can cause the common cold. The prime minister is understood to be preparing a long-term plan for managing Covid without restrictions and other emergency measures as confidence grows in government that the NHS will weather the Omicron wave.Gove has been a leading advocate of Covid restrictions and acknowledged this morning that while he had been on the “more cautious end” of government discussions, Johnson had been right to overrule him.“His judgment has been vindicated,” Gove told Today on BBC Radio 4. “He argued publicly that we would be able to get through this with the booster campaign.”Gove said that “for the next two or three weeks, perhaps longer”, the focus would be dealing with pressure on the NHS, but said there would be “better times ahead” beyond that.“One of the things that we do need to think about is how we live with this particular type of coronavirus. There are other coronaviruses which are endemic and with which we live. Viruses tend to develop in a way whereby they become less harmful but more widespread,” he said.“So at some point it will have to stop being an emergency but that is likely to be a phase-out rather than an active point in time where somebody can declare the epidemic over.“It’s going to fade out and disappear much more slowly than that, I think.”Medley said ministers would then have to make decisions on free testing and future rounds of booster vaccinations using the same cost-benefit analysis as other non-Covid public health measures.“The decisions that the government makes about vaccinating, for example against measles, are based upon decisions in terms of public health, but also the costs, and I think to some extent that approach will become more and more likely as we go forward,” he said.“We have an annual vaccination programme against influenza, for example, we have childhood vaccination programmes against many other diseases, but we don’t, for example, vaccinate against chickenpox.”He said that making free tests available had been very valuable in managing Covid so far, arguing: “It does allow people to manage their risks. Since July the number of admissions was roughly constant, just under 1,000 a day, up until the beginning of December. “That can really only come about if people are managing their risks and the free diagnostics have enabled that.” Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, which represents hospital bosses, said he believed that the health service’s “front line will hold”. In London, where the Omicron outbreak first took off, hospital admissions are now down 17 per cent from the start of the year and the rolling average has fallen for seven days in a row. The capital has 3,867 Covid patients in hospital, the latest figures released on Sunday show - about half last January’s peak.

So you want everyone else to stick to the topic at hand, but it's ok for you to make blatantly political posts (that are unrelated to Djokovic) because you're the OP?

Omegafanman · Jan 11, 2022

Omegafanman
Some interesting and measured comments - I appreciate all the contributions. Hopefully people will keep things factual and friendly. It is good to see and understand different viewpoints and like the virus the science and data is always evolving....

Hello @Dan S
Given Ana Brnabic is just being interviewed about Djokovic’s home country Covid test status and the ongoing potential for three year bans or special circumstances waivers etc based on Federal and immigration reviews, I think keeping politics out is going to be impractical. My comments above still sum up my hopes for the thread and it is interesting to get a better understanding of different peoples views and thoughts. My last post was just to highlight that in the UK the situation is evolving which might impact future immigration requirements one imagines.