Anyone encountered fake parts on a real Omega Watch?

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Firstly, let me state categorically that I do not in any way shape or form condone fraud. However, I was just wondering if say an OEM/service dial was no longer available, would it be reprehensible to replace a ruined dial with an non-OEM produced part on a watch that was for personal use. I would also state that if done, it should be disclosed in any subsequent sale by the owner.

Huge in the Seiko dive watch game yet it's called a Mod.

I have a Certina DS-3 that most examples had original hands changed as soon as they were bought. Hard to find one with original hands
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I think you have to be very specific with the word "fake". There is a difference between fake and non factory original. Obviously when you take the watch or car to the factory service you expect original branded parts. If the part is no longer manufactured I expect that alternative parts will be used, but they are labeled and communicated as such and that does not make it fake. As long as I know it is an aftermarket part I am ok with it. I understand for some owners factory parts are important with watches or card, but as you go vintage, new old stock parts maybe imprsctible or impossible. The key is proper communication and representation and the owner can decide what is acceptable.


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For vintage (pre 1990s) using "other" quality parts would be fine on all accounts but say Bill buys a brand new man on the moon in 2011 and after wearing it daily for 5 years the bezel, crystal and bracelet is scratched and he wants to sell it to make money to get another watch. He may take it to a jeweler and go the cheapest route to making it like new again. He tacks on an aftermarket mineral Crystal and buys a generic replica bracelet and tachy bezel then sells it to a second owner.

The second owner takes the watch to Omega for service and is told the bezel, crystal and bracelet are not original.

That scenario is what my watch guy was referring to. Not vintage pieces coming in with fake parts but new post 2000 era watches coming in for service from second and third hand owners with fake parts
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Huge in the Seiko dive watch game yet it's called a Mod.

"Modded" watches are sort of a different thing I think. In the Seiko market it seem less about trying to fool someone or avoid paying a premium for OEM parts than it is about customizing the watch to suit individual tastes. So these are usually done with the full knowledge of the person who owns the watch and subsequent buyers, where I think the OP was more concerned about someone using fake parts during a routine service and claiming they are original.

Monsters are modded all the time (have done a few myself for people when I used to accept Asian watches for work), and I just yesterday finished installing a sapphire crystal in a Seiko dive case for a buddy who didn't have a good enough press to do the job right, so made an exception to my rule of not working on these in this case. The original crystal was mineral glass, so this is a definite upgrade with AR coating both sides, etc.

Modded watches are big in some Omega circles. We've all seen the Mitsukoshi dial mods on Speedmasters, but modding 22545000's with the "non-AC" dial, PO seconds hand, and PO bezel is a very popular mod in some circles.

Modding Rolex DJ watches with aftermarket diamond dials and bezels is common, and I have seen the red seconds hand from the platinum YM put on other watches.

Modded watches can come with problems also, as most people don't understand there are different hand heights involved, etc., so it's often more involved than just swapping the dial and hands, at least to do the job right...

Cheers, Al
 
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I have been fortunate just an odd crystal, crown, or band here or there
 
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"Modded" watches are sort of a different thing I think. In the Seiko market it seem less about trying to fool someone or avoid paying a premium for OEM parts than it is about customizing the watch to suit individual tastes. So these are usually done with the full knowledge of the person who owns the watch and subsequent buyers, where I think the OP was more concerned about someone using fake parts during a routine service and claiming they are original.

Monsters are modded all the time (have done a few myself for people when I used to accept Asian watches for work), and I just yesterday finished installing a sapphire crystal in a Seiko dive case for a buddy who didn't have a good enough press to do the job right, so made an exception to my rule of not working on these in this case. The original crystal was mineral glass, so this is a definite upgrade with AR coating both sides, etc.

Modded watches are big in some Omega circles. We've all seen the Mitsukoshi dial mods on Speedmasters, but modding 22545000's with the "non-AC" dial, PO seconds hand, and PO bezel is a very popular mod in some circles.

Modding Rolex DJ watches with aftermarket diamond dials and bezels is common, and I have seen the red seconds hand from the platinum YM put on other watches.

Modded watches can come with problems also, as most people don't understand there are different hand heights involved, etc., so it's often more involved than just swapping the dial and hands, at least to do the job right...

Cheers, Al

If I may be so bold to inquire, why no Asian watches? Is it just a preference on how they are to work on, get parts for etc. like some mechanics who won't touch European cars because they just find them a pain to work on? Or just that you don't care for them? I for example have never liked Seikos just because I don't care for the bulky designs of their dive watches (and I am a diver who always wears a watch).
 
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In the case of Vintage watches original OEM parts may not be available. If it was your favourite watch and the only way to keep it running was to use "after market" parts, would you?
I know I would and I wouldn't feel bad about it. If I were to resell it I would list the non-OEM parts.


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If I may be so bold to inquire, why no Asian watches? Is it just a preference on how they are to work on, get parts for etc. like some mechanics who won't touch European cars because they just find them a pain to work on? Or just that you don't care for them? I for example have never liked Seikos just because I don't care for the bulky designs of their dive watches (and I am a diver who always wears a watch).

To be frank about it, most people who have Asian watches in their collections and contact me for service, don't want to pay what I charge for the work. That's not always the case, but there is an idea with some that the amount I charge should be based on the value of the watch, which makes no sense. It takes the same amount of time to service a Seiko 6309 as it does a Rolex 3135, or an Omega 1120, so I charge the same. This means when someone asks me about servicing one, I tell them the price, and typically never hear from them again.

The fact is, cheaper watches often take more time to get running decently than a well made watch does, so charging less for servicing one is cutting my own throat...metaphorically.

So after a while of having people not get back to me when I quote them a price, I just started to not bother quoting anymore. I don't have anything against Asian watches per se, but parts are often difficult to get (Japanese makers like Seiko don't tend to keep making parts for as long as the Swiss do), and I would rather not have to hunt all over hell's half acre looking for parts, when I can have more than enough work with watches that I have ready access to parts for. I turn down multiple watches a day due to the volume of requests I get, so I really don't need to take on watches that I know will be a headache for parts...

I certainly have serviced some nice vintage Grand and King Seikos, some Bellmatics, and chronographs in the past. People will tend to pay to have those serviced properly, along with some valuable vintage divers (62MAS for example), but the run of the mill stuff you can buy a new movement and drop it in for a fraction of what I charge to service the movement. The quality is certainly not what it is with Swiss watches (speaking generally), and often things like the soft screws they use will cause headaches, but every watch can have headaches...

It's more of a business decision than anything against Asian watches specifically. I have owned Seikos, and may own them again in the future, but working on them is a different thing entirely.

Cheers, Al
 
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To be frank about it, most people who have Asian watches in their collections and contact me for service, don't want to pay what I charge for the work. That's not always the case, but there is an idea with some that the amount I charge should be based on the value of the watch, which makes no sense. It takes the same amount of time to service a Seiko 6309 as it does a Rolex 3135, or an Omega 1120, so I charge the same. This means when someone asks me about servicing one, I tell them the price, and typically never hear from them again.

The fact is, cheaper watches often take more time to get running decently than a well made watch does, so charging less for servicing one is cutting my own throat...metaphorically.

So after a while of having people not get back to me when I quote them a price, I just started to not bother quoting anymore. I don't have anything against Asian watches per se, but parts are often difficult to get (Japanese makers like Seiko don't tend to keep making parts for as long as the Swiss do), and I would rather not have to hunt all over hell's half acre looking for parts, when I can have more than enough work with watches that I have ready access to parts for. I turn down multiple watches a day due to the volume of requests I get, so I really don't need to take on watches that I know will be a headache for parts...

I certainly have serviced some nice vintage Grand and King Seikos, some Bellmatics, and chronographs in the past. People will tend to pay to have those serviced properly, along with some valuable vintage divers (62MAS for example), but the run of the mill stuff you can buy a new movement and drop it in for a fraction of what I charge to service the movement. The quality is certainly not what it is with Swiss watches (speaking generally), and often things like the soft screws they use will cause headaches, but every watch can have headaches...

It's more of a business decision than anything against Asian watches specifically. I have owned Seikos, and may own them again in the future, but working on them is a different thing entirely.

Cheers, Al

This is not surprising. It has never ceased to amaze me at how many people complain about servicing costs, as if it's the equivalent of an oil change and wash of a Ford sedan. Your point is well taken about the value of the watch not mattering in terms of the work involved. What really gets me is when people complain about the service price of a watch like a Rolex or Omega, when in most cases the cost is anywhere from 10-20% what they could sell the watch for and they get a practically new watch in return. I had my Dad's '78 Air-King fully serviced by Rolex (including a replacement Oyster bracelet) and even after replacing the dial, crystal, hands, etc. I could still sell it for a profit. I won't though. It's absolutely beautiful now, and keeps excellent time. A full service is a joy for a very long time.
 
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need to be very professional to know the fakes from Genuine!

Good Luck
 
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I bought a watch one a Seamaster and when I took it in to get serviced the watch maker told me that the bezel was an oem one. I guess you live and learn
 
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I have aquired a few Omega's with generic crystals and crowns. Other than that issue which is minor. However the cost adds up replacing the parts. Parts can easily be $100 or more plus the cost of the service it all adds up.
1st picture as purchased sellers picture
2nd picture after new crystal, crown and service

Really makes you see how much value is added to the piece after a servicing. The hour marker's pop, cleaned dial, cleaned case, and I'm assuming the piece runs perfectly. Hard to swallow the servicing bill, but absolutely warrants the cost.

Thank you!

Thomas
 
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I have aquired a few Omega's with generic crystals and crowns. Other than that issue which is minor. However the cost adds up replacing the parts. Parts can easily be $100 or more plus the cost of the service it all adds up.
1st picture as purchased sellers picture
2nd picture after new crystal, crown and service
 
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Well, the answer to the question is complex in some ways and can get political (as much as watchmaking does anyway), but generally yes, it happens and I've seen it. It's not common in my experience, but as noted it will likely be more common in the future as more and more companies, including Swatch, cut back on the availability of spare parts. Some things are obvious, and some not. For example a fake bezel insert is usually pretty easy to spot, but a fake sapphire crystal may be more difficult, and "fake" movement parts would be even more difficult in some cases.

For the movement parts you would have to define what you mean by fake though. Many parts are interchangeable between branded and non-branded movements. It's a common belief that the Omega Cal. 1120 and the ETA 2892A2 are "the same movement" which is not true at all, as many parts are not compatible between these movements, but some are. The same thing is true for some 7750 based movements that Omega uses, like the 1151 in the OP's example. Back to the 1120/2892, and for example I can't use a rotor bearing from a 2892 in an 1120 - they are completely different designs. I can't stick a barrel bridge from an 1120 on a 2892 - the bridge for the 1120 is quite a bit thicker and will jam the rotor - found this out when I tried to replace a damaged barrel bridge on an IWC I was servicing using a spare Omega bridge I had in stock - no dice.

But if I use an ETA branded intermediate and third wheel (common wear parts in an 1120) they will work just fine, so are they fake because they don't come in an Omega package? What about an ETA 2892 mainspring compared to an Omega 1120 mainspring? Both are made by Nivarox. So personally as long as the quality is the same, I will use interchangeable parts, so for example when someone sends me a manual wind Panerai with an OP-whatever movement inside (really an ETA 6497-2), I use Omega Cal. 2201 replacement parts in it, because they are just as good, if not better, quality than the original parts in the watch.

Aftermarket parts are nothing new - the entire Bestfit system that many in North America are familiar with are essentially an aftermarket parts manufacturing and distribution company. They were known for producing high quality items that were as good as the originals. There are other similar system that have been around, so this has gone on for a long time, and was probably more common in the past as watchmakers would have large cabinets of parts, including movement parts, crowns, hands, etc in the Bestfit system, so rather than order a part from one company and another part from another company, they had compatible spares on hand for a broad selection of movements. I still use those parts for repairing defunct brands or brands that have changed hands and vintage parts are no longer available from the manufacturers. Of course I have a parts account with Omega, so I buy Omega parts directly...

Now Rolex is once again cutting off more and more independent watchmakers, and there is a big push to have someone step in with aftermarket parts. I have had the experience of ordering Rolex parts from my local supply house, and getting aftermarket instead of genuine parts that I asked for, and they looked rougher than the worn parts I was replacing, so I sent them right back. I was able to source what I needed from someone else who had genuine parts, and I actually just stocked up on a bunch of Rolex parts from a watchmaker I know who is retiring and selling off some of his stock.

Based on some very loud voices I hear in the watchmaking community, many watchmakers who have who have had their parts accounts closed by no fault of their own, there is a willingness to use aftermarket parts. Many watchmakers feel they have been screwed over by companies after jumping through all the hoops and demands made on them, and then having their accounts pulled. Many of these people have no qualms about using aftermarket parts.

I would suggest if you have concerns about your own watchmaker using aftermarket parts, just ask them about it.

Cheers, Al
Hi al' where are you located, I like your integrity and honesty in watchmaking and am trying to find a reputable and honest watchmaker i would like you to service my watches. I live in the uk myself. Thanks John. Hi again just found out you are in Canada! 🙁 would you be able to recommend a decent watchmaker in the uk? Thanks again. Regards john
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Collectors value originality over anything else. That being said, if you are only concerned with a functioning watch, then non-OEM parts would seem to be a reasonable compromise. However, this will seriously devalue a watch that is considered to be a vintage collectible.