Any thoughts on this 105.002

Monobike · Jun 1, 2021

Hi All,

Could you please give me your POV on this 105.002 that a French watch community member proposed me yesterday?
Mov. is 19.83m (no picture, EoA pending), small pushers, silver tension ring, Swiss made dial.
Claimed by the owner as fully original.

Here are all the pictures I have received so far :

WhatsApp Image 2021-05-31 at 18.39.25.jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2021-05-31 at 18.40.22.jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2021-05-31 at 18.38.51.jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2021-05-31 at 18.38.30.jpeg

Cheers from sunny France.

watchyouwant · Jun 1, 2021

Old. Ask the seller to move ALL hands away from 12 to the 3 /9 position. And take a sharp picture .......kind regards. Achim

Monobike · Jun 1, 2021

Adding pictures just received :

WhatsApp Image 2021-06-01 at 10.09.02.jpeg

Monobike · Jun 1, 2021

watchyouwant
Old. Ask the seller to move ALL hands away from 12 to the 3 /9 position. And take a sharp picture .......kind regards. Achim

Thanks for the tip. I will.

Fatcat · Jun 1, 2021

Looks like polished until death

Monobike · Jun 1, 2021

Seaborg
Maybe I'm wrong but those pushers look like 003 pushers.

I'll measure them once in hands. 😉

Dgercp · Jun 1, 2021

I would want some much better dial shots.

befobe · Jun 1, 2021

Fatcat
Looks like polished until death

Looks like he should learn how to make pics with a phone... not even 1 correct ! 😲

jeppe888 · Jun 1, 2021

the style of the watch looks great, hopefully you can get some better pictures

Monobike · Jun 1, 2021

The seller seems to have an old smartphone. I am trying to get better pictures.
Here is the dial I got today.

Monobike · Jun 1, 2021

My concern is how polished the lugs are.
So here are some (bad) additional pictures I got today.

But is is a 60 yo watch so it looks kinda normal to have polished/used lugs.

gemini4 · Jun 1, 2021

I would be concerned about the hands.
Movements south of 20mm normally sport alpha hands.
North of 20mm have the batons.

edit: MWO confirms this.

Monobike · Jun 2, 2021

gemini4
I would be concerned about the hands.
Movements south of 20mm normally sport alpha hands.
North of 20mm have the batons.

edit: MWO confirms this.

Thanks you Geminis.
Is this a sharp turn at 20m or is it approx 20m as 19.83m is not that far ?
Finding some Alpha hands might be a challenge (and cost !).

airansun · Jun 2, 2021

A bunch of petty observations.

1 - movement is pretty nice considering how polished the case is and how worn the bezel is. Maybe nothing, but…

2 - the pebbling on the caseback makes me wonder what the hell did that and why it doesn’t appear anywhere else.

3 - those hands were repainted and relumed, apart from being wrong for the serial number, and the work is such to make me question what else might have been so imperfectly ‘restored’, like…

4 -… I wonder what that dial really looks like. I’d want to examine the dial’s lume in hand, with a loupe to allay any suspicions

5 - based on the circle on the caseback inside, the watch does not have a period correct inner cover. Not hard to correct, but another little warning sign.

6 - I’m not as picky about cases as some others here, but even I feel badly for how soft the case is.

I’m not comfortable with the watch. Of course, if I wanted (another) one and it was cheap enough…

P. S. I waited a few years before I got lucky and found correct hands for mine. Very expensive and very tricky to be sure before you’ve committed funds. Some people try to modify modern hands to fool the unwary.

zenaj · Jun 2, 2021

What is the price for the watch if i may ask?

Monobike · Jun 2, 2021

Z zenaj
What is the price for the watch if i may ask?

Around 15k$ which corresponds to Speedmaster101 good condition indication for this watch.

Monobike · Jun 2, 2021

airansun
A bunch of petty observations.

1 - movement is pretty nice considering how polished the case is and how worn the bezel is. Maybe nothing, but…

2 - the pebbling on the caseback makes me wonder what the hell did that and why it doesn’t appear anywhere else.

3 - those hands were repainted and relumed, apart from being wrong for the serial number, and the work is such to make me question what else might have been so imperfectly ‘restored’, like…

4 -… I wonder what that dial really looks like. I’d want to examine the dial’s lume in hand, with a loupe to allay any suspicions

5 - based on the circle on the caseback inside, the watch does not have a period correct inner cover. Not hard to correct, but another little warning sign.

6 - I’m not as picky about cases as some others here, but even I feel badly for how soft the case is.

I’m not comfortable with the watch. Of course, if I wanted (another) one and it was cheap enough…

P. S. I waited a few years before I got lucky and found correct hands for mine. Very expensive and very tricky to be sure before you’ve committed funds. Some people try to modify modern hands to fool the unwary.

Thank you for this extensive feedback.
Owner said movement got overhauled in 2019 by an independent watchmaker. That might explain why it looks so clean vs. case/bezel.
I also questioned about the condition of the caseback. The only answer I got was " I bought it like this".
Now I can see some extra materials on hands that I did not pay attention to before which indicates that some rework has been done in the past on these hands.
Nice catch on the circle in the inside of the caseback. I'll bring this up with the seller.

So from a "wow I probably have finally found the right watch", the list of weak points on this watch begins to look like the French constitution...
I'll get it in hands next Monday so let's see. (unless I get a 105.003 at a not too crazy price at an auction this week)

Spacefruit · Jun 2, 2021

Monobike
Around 15k$ which corresponds to Speedmaster101 good condition indication for this watch.

Personally I would have to stretch to put this as Good.

remember also chart is reflective not predictive, nor proscriptive, and that prices for this kind of watch are open to debate.

when a watch falls out of Very Good, it’s often got more than one minor originality queries as well as potentially serious “attraction” issues.

so we step away from box ticking for correctness and originality, and the value becomes dependent on how attractive it is. Often a large part of the attraction will be how cheap it is.

a fine 105002 might easily sell for $30,000 or more with provenance and accessories. So one with a few problems for $8,000 might be fun. It’s that middle ground price, 15k, which is getting harder and harder to justify, without something to make you look twice.

this watch, being sold on these photos, does not deserve a risky price - that means it’s about double what many here might want to offer, given the risk.

of course those who favour condition above all else will rightly dismiss it as not worth considering.

gemini4 · Jun 2, 2021

Monobike
Thanks you Geminis.
Is this a sharp turn at 20m or is it approx 20m as 19.83m is not that far ?
Finding some Alpha hands might be a challenge (and cost !).

Like other vintage Omegas, the movement numbers for the 105.002-62 were issued in batches. The baton handed examples normally are seen in the group of 2052xxxx.

Monobike · Jun 2, 2021

gemini4
Like other vintage Omegas, the movement numbers for the 105.002-62 were issued in batches. The baton handed examples normally are seen in the group of 2052xxxx.

Thanks for confirming. Has this always been the case for all Omegas ? (as we can see from MWO batches infos).
So Alpha hands should be in place here...🤔

Any thoughts on this 105.002

Monobike

watchyouwant

Monobike

Monobike

Fatcat

Monobike

Dgercp

befobe

jeppe888

Monobike

Monobike

gemini4

Monobike

airansun

zenaj

Monobike

Monobike

Spacefruit

gemini4

Monobike

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