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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberGood point about the painted nick. 👍
An unique 1930 Universal Geneve watch - Shield On Dial Of Early UG Three Hander
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bgrisso
·Perhaps I am mistaken but I am always suspicious of watches with that logo on the dial. That style of logo is found inside case backs from 1937 to 1953 but I'm not so sure about dials.
I know that there is one example in Sala but the fact that there is just one example amongst the hundreds in Sala does little to convince me.
you see these logos on dials more often with time only than chronos, I've had several and never had any reason to doubt the dials IMO. I'm not sure about OP dial. If redone its very good, the fonts look great. If scratches are painted over, is it possible someone just touched up the scratches at some point?
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rustynuts
·The dial tells a story. Looks like whoever prepared the dial did not do a very good job as there are still nicks and scratches on it. as nicks and scratches are painted, it would indicate to a serious quality control issue or a redial ...
I am going with the later!
That could just as easily be a scratch on the crystal
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Diabolik
·you see these logos on dials more often with time only than chronos, I've had several and never had any reason to doubt the dials IMO. I'm not sure about OP dial. If redone its very good, the fonts look great. If scratches are painted over, is it possible someone just touched up the scratches at some point?
Reference and serial on these two please but without further research, I am very dubious about the second one you show. Almost certain it is a redial.
The abnormality is on dial, not crystal. Hoewever, as is often said, the proof is in the pudding so please show dial. Another way of proving this one is to remove dial and take a pick of back of dial .... Is that an option.
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Modest_Proposal
·Case is correct
However, dial is not. It is either a redial or a modified dial. Here is a catalogue image of the case and dial combination going back to late 30s which ties in well with the serial number.
Very strange that you would make this argument. You know full well that case and dial combinations were not sacred during that era.
Looks potentially original to me.
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Tony C.
··Ωf Jury memberWell, it seems clear now that the logo on the OP's watch was used, and it's a useful thread for that data point alone.
Thanks to the various contributors!
Thanks to the various contributors!
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jerryct
·Wow!! This is really enriching guys! Appreciate all the inputs!
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Syrte
·I don’t know anything about watches or about UG, but what I’ve seen on the one brand I explore the most is that people have trained their brains to recognize the most familiar and frequent patterns and when something’s unusual, they conclude it must be wrong.
And then in a number of cases, further research shows that the initial reaction was misguided- and that there were in fact variants.
After 80 years, certainly a great many watches must have disappeared and been destroyed— and so the emerging patterns are only the most widespread models.
With prices having increased as they have, I can understand people erring on the side of caution if they are buying— but otherwise new discoveries can be quite rewarding.
And then in a number of cases, further research shows that the initial reaction was misguided- and that there were in fact variants.
After 80 years, certainly a great many watches must have disappeared and been destroyed— and so the emerging patterns are only the most widespread models.
With prices having increased as they have, I can understand people erring on the side of caution if they are buying— but otherwise new discoveries can be quite rewarding.
Edited:
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jerryct
·I don’t know anything about watches or about UG, but what I’ve seen on the one brand I explore the most is that people have trained their brains to recognize the most familiar and frequent patterns and when something’s unusual, they conclude it must be wrong.
And then in a number of case, further research shows that the initial reaction was misguided- and that there were in fact variants.
After 80 years, certainly a great watches must have disappeared and been destroyed— and so the emerging patterns are only the most widespread models.
With prices having increased as they have, I can understand people erring on the side of caution if they are buying— but otherwise new discoveries can be quite rewarding.
Indeed. As more and more of us get informed and more variations are discovered, we tend to become less accepting of any anomalies that turn up. I agree that the increasing price point does make people more cautious.
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bgrisso
·Very strange that you would make this argument. You know full well that case and dial combinations were not sacred during that era.
Looks potentially original to me.
man that is gorgeous !
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jumpingsecond
·OP dial feels original to me but I'm not an expert at all. Anyway to look at the back of the dial to see any paint marks or signs of redialing?
If redialed it was done by a maestro.
If redialed it was done by a maestro.
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jerryct
·OP dial feels original to me but I'm not an expert at all. Anyway to look at the back of the dial to see any paint marks or signs of redialing?
If redialed it was done by a maestro.
I would need to go to a watch maker to do that though.
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FREDMAYCOIN
·Indeed. As more and more of us get informed and more variations are discovered, we tend to become less accepting of any anomalies that turn up. I agree that the increasing price point does make people more cautious.
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jerryct
·
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Syrte
·I would need to go to a watch maker to do that though.
I wouldn’t. It’s a very nice looking watch, if you’re just looking to wear it, why bother?
Unless a redial job is sloppy and blatant, only a person holding a watch in hand ultimately can say if the dial is original.
Well intentioned people these days like to pick watches apart.
It’s happened a couple of times to me with Longines watches. Someone considered an expert on the forum called it a redial, of course giving leave for a other people to « vote » — a watch which other, knowledgeable collectors deemed «patently original».
It is clearly today the most outstanding and valuable watch I own and I even hesitated to let Longines’ own chief vintage watchmaker open it.
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Syrte
·PS that strap is a looker!! May I ask where you got it? It looks like vintage pigskin.
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Diabolik
·I think the question we should be asking ourselves is if we trying to determine if a watch is genuine or not ? Opinions and personal evaluation based on images although useful, require further validation by documentary evidence.
Just because it looks good, it does not mean it is.
The process of determining genuinity requires gathering information and objectively discussing and evaluating against what we know for certain. The starting point has got to be documentation (images, photographs, adverts, references and documents) of the era.
From all of the evidence that I have seen and has been put forward (catalogs and references, sala and others) I don't see any definitive proof that the logo was used in the 30s and 40s. Referring to that old chestnut regarding the many undiscovered prototypes, hidden gems, mystery one of, unique made to order and so forth is not a great way of establishing or passing something off as genuine even if it is attractive and desirable .
Just because it looks good, it does not mean it is.
The process of determining genuinity requires gathering information and objectively discussing and evaluating against what we know for certain. The starting point has got to be documentation (images, photographs, adverts, references and documents) of the era.
From all of the evidence that I have seen and has been put forward (catalogs and references, sala and others) I don't see any definitive proof that the logo was used in the 30s and 40s. Referring to that old chestnut regarding the many undiscovered prototypes, hidden gems, mystery one of, unique made to order and so forth is not a great way of establishing or passing something off as genuine even if it is attractive and desirable .
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rolokr
·Very strange that you would make this argument. You know full well that case and dial combinations were not sacred during that era.
Looks potentially original to me.
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